Felix Trinidad vs. Oscar De La Hoya @ 154

Any difference?

I think Tito legimately wins this fight this time.

 

You mean right now ? If so Oscar stops him late ...

Also is this going under the assumption Oscar still retains what he learned from the first fight ??

Tito is naturally a larger person but allot of other things come into play ..

 

No I meant earlier in the early 00s.

Not now. I'd pick Oscar right now.

Semi-active > inactive

 

10 oz. gloves?

 

Honestly, I had it 9-3 for Oscar and consider it one of the biggest robberies of all time, but at 154, I think Cheato wins. I think part of Oscar's success was Cheato never fought anyone good before and he was struggling to make weight for years. 154 was Tito's proper weight for half of his unimpressive welterweight reign. I think that had as much to do with his listless gift decision win than Oscar's skills. Oscar didn't hurt Cheato at all and his chin was not great.

 

:jester:

 

Trinidad wins a deserved decision with a strong late rounds surge. The key to Oscar's success the first time was his movement(He's a very flat footed fighter at 154 and stands in the pocket more). Also Tito wasn't struggling with weight at 154 pounds, and Oscar was a much more hittable target then.


Trinidad via close UD.

 

If you can jab and move, have solid defense and a good chin, you can beat tito like Oscar did the first time. I still think he beats Trinidad.

It's amazing to me how he was decisievly beaten twice by guys who simply jabbed him and didn't let him get set and should've been beaten by another guy who did it, yet he is still seen as this legendary fighter.

How can a guy who was thrice so decisively spellbound by boxing's most basic weapon be considered so great?

 

I don't get it either. Felix Trinidad is more exciting than good. I can't make that point enough. People get confused. They think I hate Cheato because I say he is not a great fighter. I think he was so exciting people think he was great. Honestly, he might have been the most entertaining superstar ever. Frankly, as much of a Gatti fan as I am. Felix was just more exciting match for match, but he was never a great fighter; he was good and that is only because he had bone jarring power. The guy was very basic. In fact, I think Cotto has more skills than Tito ever had. fdgdssddw fdgdssddw

 

To be honest , being more flat footed in a rematch would be exactly how Oscar would win ... The problem he had in the first fight was that he used to much leg and wore himself down ...
Oscar is capable of not using that much leg and still would not get hit any more then he did the first time ..

 

yes, he's a hall of fame fighter (although who isn't with the way the IBHOF has been electing people in recent years?:jester: ) and he was Excellent. Great puncher with excellent, by-the-book punching form and he had heart and was exciting but to me a guy who is bamboozled three times by a jab and a little bit of movement and never seems to be even remotley close to solving it on any of those occassions just can't be a truly "great" fighter.

 

Tito fought several boxers who moved and jabbed him but didn't win (Carr, Camachoe). The difference is it took great hall of fame bound fighters to have the heart to stand up to his power and pressure to be able to make it effective. Just because there is a style that Tito has trouble with does not mean he isn't great, it merely means he's not the best.

To put it simply if Tito only lost to the best, then he too is one of the best. You can't just slap movement and a jab on average fighters and think they'll beat him. He was a great fighter and at 147 he showed alot more skill and thinking then after his move to 154 where he became power happy.

 

I just don't trust in Oscar's gas tank in a fight at 154. I'd pick Tito by late Stoppage or lop-sided decision. Oscar built his entire career in the 2000s on beating Tito left overs. :nixweiss:

 

he wasn't flat-footed againt vargas or mosley ii.

 

For Mosley Oscar ran out of steam just like he always tends to. It's what caused him to lose the last 4 rds on every judges card in the world and basically what cost him the fight.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see him run out of steam late against Tito and possibly get beaten into a stoppage in a fight he was winning early.

 

And Tito himself and rather easily I might add.

 

It was a World Championship Boxing Match, not the 100m dash. :nixweiss:

 

agREED. I've always believed that Tito would knock out Oscar at any weight above 147. People can claim "stick a jab in his face and he can't fight back", but Oscar obviously can't do that for 12 rounds. He'll either go all out then run out of gas like he did against Tito, and Shane in the rematch, or he'll try to preserve himself in the middle rounds in an attempt to close big. Either way, a 154 lb. Tito will be there waiting for him, and takes over for good.

 

Yeah I don't get why everyone thinks 33-34 year old shot inactive Tito represents Tito throughout his entire career. Tito was awesome at 154. He was more stable, less shaky on the legs, and punched with combinations and power (his combo on David Reid in round 7 was a thing of beauty).

Oscar is no Winky, and certainly no Hopkins. He might be able to shoot the jab for 6-7 rounds, but Oscar is basically a front runner and after the midway point his running to punching ratio gets heavily skewed.

Trinidad used to run half marathons, and was much more stable and dynamic at 154. He would chase Oscar all 12 rounds.:box:

 

:jester:

 

Camacho was a little old guy when Trinidad fought him and Carr was always a chinny front runner

 

get outta here

If Oscar was Puerto Rican and Trinidad was a black guy from harlem, you'd be crowing about Oscar getting robbed:nono:

 

I think the opposite. If Oscar would have stood in the pocket against Trinidad the way he did against Fernando Vargas, Oscar would have taken some serious punishment. Oscar's footwork IMO was always his best defensive weapon. Whenever he moved laterally, he was a difficult target. As he moved up in weight, he wasn't as light on his feet anymore so he tried to learn some new defensive tactics, but ultimately they were ineffective. Even in the fights that Oscar won, he was getting hit alot more and coming out of his fights with more cuts and swelling than what was ever seen before when he was a welterweight.

It would certainly be a close fight. And I think Oscar would control early. But I don't think he stands up to Trinidad's bodypunching as the fight goes on and he would gas late as usual. I could see Trinidad knocking him down late to seal a decision.

 

That's the problem, Oscar would get hit more when he's not using lateral movement.

Oscar frustrated the hell out of Trinidad in the first fight with his lateral movement, and of course, the jab. Tito's footwork isn't the best and he's flat footed, but he's an accurate puncher with terrific punch selection when the guy is at range. Oscar doesn't have that shell defense like Winky to block so many shots when he's standing right in front of him.

 

'Cause to truly decisively beat Trinidad took more than just a "jab and a little bit of movement..."

It took strong, big men at higher weights who were very proficient technically, naturally bigger, with quite ALOT of movement and a great chin....and good skill.

What Hops did wasn't "simple" - it was a masterpiece.

I really don't credit the Wright fight - Trinidad was almost 3 years away and to me it was evident he had lost his heart for fighting. And even then, Wright had most of the qualities I pointed out above. Nor does DLH have that shell defense...

I had Trinidad-DLH a draw....and DLH had to move, move MOVE to be able to do what he did. A prime DLH against a prime but weight-drained Trinidad....who still closed the noose down the stretch.

DLH never moved that way again ever - especially at higher weights where he was carrying more weight and needed to sit down on his shots more.

At 154 I don't think DLH has the stamina or power to do it - plus at 154 he begins using the "Mayweather defense", which to me was always a mistake.

154 was Trinidad's best weight in terms of comfort and it was where he was most ferocious and relentless.

If Castillejo's sloooow, overhand right lands on DLH consistently and a somewhat damaged (but roided) Fernando Vargas can go tit-for-tat with him and land a thudding jab, left hooks to head and body and outmuscle DLH until the 11th...

I think Trinidad takes it. DLH's jab and quickness will always give Tito trouble, but at 154 the fight is Trinidad's, IMHO.

There's a reason DLH didn't want to rematch at 152.

Peace.

 

Good post! :2: :2: :2:

 

I had Hoya up 8-4 over Trinidad even with the free rounds. And I don;t think it had much to do with Trinidad and more to do Hoya arrogantly thinking he had the fight in the bag and just coasting. What did Trinidad land in those rounds? 5 decent punches? As for the Vargas fight, again I had hoya ahead enough to be clear he was winning the fight. And hoya wouldn't fight Trinidad the way he fought castillejo, so I don't think that's pertinent here. To me, if Trinidad was truly a great one, he would've found a way to at least be convincingly competetive against his fellow greats (Hoya--who gave it away and Hopkins--who dismantled Trinidad and won every second of that fight after the first 2 rounds. You can take away the Wright fight if you wish but plenty of folks thought Felix would win that fight based off of how easily he destroyed Mayorga--looking very much like his "old" self)

 

Oscar was robbed. I trinidad still had King for this fantasy matchup, it would happen again.


I'm suprised there's a debate over it. I don't hear Chavez fans saying he beat Whitaker. (Another fight where the King promoted fighter got a gift)

 

There were more close rounds in DLH-Trinidad.

Whitaker-Chavez was a far worse decision.

 

Yup...and DLH gets ALOT of credit for punches he really didn't quite land.