DLH cut up that faded version of JCC (Twice)...what happens if it's a prime JCC? You can say 135 or 140, as Chavez was at or near his prime at both classes. DLH was maybe a little bit green at 135, but close enough to his prime.
Chavez I just think his pressure, bodypunching and his endless stamina would be a little too much for Hoya to overcome. Oscar has his moments and scores plenty early, but in the end his exhausted and Chavez is still firing JCC W12
Chavez was the same age Oscar is now ... Anyway , I still go with Oscar ... I think in the end the outcome would be the same , it would just take longer for Oscar to get it done ... If you watch the fights , you can see the styles favor Oscar and so does his reach and size ... I say he stops Chavez again just later on in the fight ..
You mean when they fought originally? Sure - but by that time, Chavez already had around 99 fights - and he had fought Martinez, Castillo, Mayweather, Lockridge, LaPorte, Rosario, Limon, Ramirez, Taylor, Camacho, Haugen, Randall, and a slew of good/solid fighters.... And he was in his 3rd or 4th weight class (depending on where you start in his career) - in a body that was smaller than DLH's ever was... Having already been in the ring for almost 17 years. Whole different scenario in terms of true "body age" and wear and tear. Peace.
Theres no doubt in my mind that a prime Chavez beats DLH. Oscar just never had the stamina to have dealt with a prime JCC. He'd be up on the cards through about 8 rounds, then fade as always but not only just from his own, but from Julio's methodical body attack as well. Chavez completely takes control late, and gives Oscar a late round beating. At 135 theres a chance Julio stops him. At 140 its closer, but Chavez still wins.
I agree with Chavez by decision in a tough fight...but it is a close affair. Ironically enough, the secret weapon here that tilts it for Chavez is that he's able to land that straight, quick, heavy right hand over the top over and over again. DLH is very vulnerable to that shot - and at 140 lbs, especially so. Chavez uses the left hook to the body (or double left hook) and that right hand lands clean all night. That and Julio's pressure and body work win him the fight with a late-rounds surge after he adjusts to DLH's speed. Peace.
This makes sense. DLH is a bad matchup for chavez. plus he hit too hard at those weights. chavez in his prime obviously would've given him a tougher fight but DLH wins 10 out of 10.
I agree with all you said ... However if Chavez was younger at 140 , I still go with Oscar to stop him - just later in the fight ..
Yes , regardless how young or prime we make Chavez , fighting at 140 Oscar still busts him up and stops him ... Above people are talking about Chavez's body attack , well seriously speaking Chavez isn't going to be all up in Oscar's body if every time he tryed to come in , Oscar lands cleanly with hard power shots ... Chavez would rarely get in there and he would always pay a huge price every time he tryed .... Oscar punched hard at 140 and every shot would hurt Chavez in some way or another. No-matter how young Chavez was , Oscar would always hurt him and bust him up ... Oscar punching Chavez had the effects of say Jermain Taylor punching Cotto.
I hear you - but even though you may pick DLH to win (and that's a legitimate position), I fail to see how he stops a much younger, stronger, closer-to-prime Chavez. He stopped the older, badly faded, declining Chavez - simply because Chavez refused to continue, not because he was on the floor or beat up. And that I remember, JCC was never seriously cut in previous fights enough to warrant a stoppage. DLH would have been too cautious to go all out in an attempt to stop Chavez - 1) he wasn't/isn't willing to take the punishment required to do that until an opponent is VERY hurt; 2) Chavez would be much more aggressive and sharper and a better fighter. Given the MAGO fight, chances are DLH would look to jab and outpoint JCC. Peace.
The way he busted up Molina? Or Miguel Angel Gonzalez? Bro....the picture of an old, badly faded Chavez with little heart left for the game is what's in your head. Chavez would rarely get inside? DLH is NOT that much of a defensive wizard....especially not a YOUNG DLH at 140. Chavez was a master at finding positions and working his way inside... And Chavez' right hand is severely underrated. DLH has problems with the right and Julio would be using it to good effect. He also knew how to work his way in behind a jab. You're just assuming Chavez would be a no-defense punching bag with no ability to hurt DLH or make him cautious...and with little boxing ability. All of those are inaccurate for a much closer-to-prime Chavez. DLH is not Taylor. He fights entirely, completely differently. DLH would not stand to trade, would not be willing to risk his head/body to be hit in trying to aggressively punch Chavez - and doesn't have Meldrick's speed and certainly not his workrate. Peace.
Oscar faded vs a zombie Tito who wasnt doing jack shit, yet some of you DLH nut lickers dont think he'd fade vs a prime Chavez?ghfjdgs ghfjdgs ghfjdgs
Some of Oscar's stamina problems I think have to do with him being tense and not relaxed in there, but it was also because of how much Oscar was using his legs versus Trinidad. While Chavez wasn't the type of puncher that Tito was, he was much better at cutting off the ring. You can't just box and use movement against Chavez, you have to stand your ground as well. As Donny said, Chavez was very good with the straight right hand, which you could get Oscar with. Chavez also had an effective jab and good head movement. He rolled with shots and slipped them very well. He wouldn't have an easy time with Oscar, as Oscar was a terrific fighter himself with very quick hands and good power, but he'd adjust, find the range, and continue to apply the pressure, and gradually take over. I say Oscar gets stopped late, or loses a 8-4 type decision.
Who said DLH fights like Taylor ? ghfjdgs It was a comparison - not a comparison of fighters . You know like when you say "he hit him like a sledge hammer" Now you really aren't going to compare a sledge hammer with the way the guy really got hit . Are you ? DLH would always stand and trade with Chavez. Chavez was made for DLH's style ... DLH would not need Taylor's speed .. He would beat him exactly like he did only it would take longer ... You are making a mistake to compare any other fights like Molina etc. The way Chavez fights and the way DLH fights , it would have always favored DLH ... Chavez would also always have problems with DLH's power. You ask why he didn't take out other fighters well , their face wasn't in perfect power range to land these shots like Chavez's style combined with DLH's style happens to create. The mixture of styles is a bad thing for Chavez. His style favors DLH's ability to execute his strong points ..
:jester: No....I was simply making a point on DLH's style and strengths by comparing him to a fighter at 140 who did have success vs. Chavez and who was faster and had arguably better boxing ability. Come on, man, I'm sure you got that. As to the styles...Molina is relevant because Molina was a smaller fighter, who jabbed and crouched and was physically inferior to a YOUNG DLH (you have to remember, at 140 DLH is younger with less experience)....and DLH struggled with him. Same with MAGO....Gonzalez is a SHADOW of Chavez in terms of style - yet DLH was not able to "stand and trade" and really got smacked with right hands all night. DLH does not LIKE to stand and trade unless he knows he has the big physical advantage in size and power. When he tried vs. Mosley in their first fight....he got a rude surprise and basically didn't know how to adjust. When he tried vs. Quartey...he had to back off and box and pump his jab until Ike was completely fatigued....and Ike always had stamina problems. Chavez, does not. Despite height, DLH would know he does not have it vs. Chavez. Again, you are assuming that a MUCH closer to prime Chavez would simply stand there, crouch and get hit. :nono: DLH would have a hard time dealing with Chavez' offensive footwork, his lead right hand and aggressive body work (always a DLH weakness) and his parrying. Hell, Trinidad's parrying gave DLH trouble. It's easy to look at DLH's fights with Chavez and think that had they happened when Chavez was much younger, it would have been the same but a bit more competitive.... But things change drastically and Chavez was pretty badly faded. Pull out some of his fights at 135 and early at 140. You also cannot forget that in their second fight, Chavez was very competitive - he had won 2-3 rounds and was making a fight of it - which is why the quittage was surprising (plus the fact that it was coming from Chavez, of course). I agree it's competitive and that DLH would always give him trouble....but I think Chavez takes it. Peace.
DLH facilmente contral la cabeza de cocaine. Oscar es un combatiente mas mejor in terminos del talento, in mi opinion.
This is weird....you're actually NICER when you speak in Spanish! But you're still wrong. :neener: :jester:
No estoy mas simpatico estoy mas humille porque no communcar (no se; I don't communicate)muy bien in espanol. Cada palabra es una lucha (a struggle) y tengo a ver el dicionario menudo. Pienso que DLH is un hombre mas grande que Julio Caesar Chavez. CHAVEZ ES EL mejor peleador "Pound 4 pound" pero in realidad DLH is mejor al pesos 135,140 y 147. Oscar tiene las manos mas rapida que Julio y mas poder, in mi opinion.
Agreed, except I think that De La Hoya fought Chavez differently in the rematch, showing less respect and trading more often at quarters, because he wanted to prove a point to Chavez and stop him (not on cuts), and therefore gave Chavez more opportunities to score. He knew he was the much bigger fighter, as Chavez was no welterweight, and has far past his prime. DLH would move more against a prime Chavez, but he also has to stand his ground as well. Chavez was an excellent ring-cutter, you had to pick your spots when to box and move and when to stand your ground and trade with him.
