Is the shoulder roll defense legal or not?

Someone in one of the Floyd vs. Oscar post-fight threads said that the shoulder roll is illegal (I think it was Kauki.) I never really thought about this. Oscar did it when he trained with Mayweather Sr (though not well) and Mayweather did it all night Saturday.

Is this true?

Seems reasonable to me that it would be illegal...tucking your chin and rolling your shoulder over top basically shows your back to your opponent...opponent isn't allowed to hit your back, but you can't show it to him either, can you?

 

I think the shoulder roll is borderline. What I do think is or at least should be illegal is when Floyd bends all the way over and turns away. This leaves nothing but illegal openings.

 

YES..it is illegal!

Floyd is actually on his way to jail in the back of a police car as we discuss this.....

 

Is a rear deltoid considered part of your back ? ::

 

I'd say that equating shoulder rolling to showing your back is a bit of a stretch. I haven't seen anything illegal on saturday night.

 

Yes , IMO its a judgement call ... Depends on how far the fighter actually rolls ...
IMO Floyd's shoulder roll is acceptable ...

 

Yep, I think that is borderline legal, the shoulder roll is perfectly legal IMO.

 

Yeah, jus the shoulder roll is fine. It's when he bends over and turns all the way around. When he does that it should be legal to hammer fist the back of his head.

 

If they're gonna allow fighters like Mayweather and Byrd to fight the way they fight and exploit the rules of boxing to their advantage, then they should make it legal to hit your opponent in whatever part of the body is exposed, above the waist. I don't see why it's such a big deal to hit a guy in the back, or even the back of the head. I see this too often, where fighters get hurt, and turn their heads away, exposing the back of their head, and when they get hit in the back of the head, the referee steps in and warns the other guy. Why should they be protected like that? It's one thing to go out of your way to intentionally rabbit-punch a guy, but if your natural punching motion cause you to hit a guy in an area that he willfully exposes, that's his problem.
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It's legal...

"however"

Punches above the elbow and on the shoulder are considered fair blows. Those should be counted as landed punches.

Also, it's illegal to hit in the kidney's but if the guy turns away and offers the shot, I saw take it all day long.

That's what Rahman did against Toney. James ended up with a lacerated kidney afterwards. James bitched about the punches, but if he turned into the shot, what is Rahman supposed to do, not punch back?

I'd throw right hooks to the body until he stopped bending into the punches.

"protect yourself at all times" is the first rule of boxing. If you're offering those openings to your opponent, then you only have yourself to blame.

Oscar bitched about Mosley clubbing him on the back of the head, but Oscar regularly bent down when he saw the right hand coming in. Shane had no choice but to give him the baby seal treatment.

 

The thing is, getting hit in the back of the head is REALLY dangerous. That's how guys can get seriously hurt.

 

if PBF turns his back, or bends over like a turtle, his opponent's job is to hit him in the back. it's as simple as that. and the referee's job is to not be a dumb-ass about it and allow it. only then will it work itself out. either PBF will have to endure a back-beating, or he will fight legally. no other intervention is necessary. i think what's been lacking thus far, with few exceptions, is an opponent willing to hit PBF in the back when he ducks like he does.

 

Repeated rabbit-punches in clinches, like the ones Benn hit McClelland with, are dangerous since they have a cumulative effect, and they should be illegal since they can't be defended against. But if a fighter turns and exposes the back of his head and gets hit once, too bad. It's a good deterrent against him doing it again, as opposed to the referee stepping in and threatening to take a point from the other guy, which is what usually happens.

 

yep.

if I was in the ring and my opponent hit me with Rabbit punches more than once...after the second time I'd immediately kick him in the balls...full strength.

 

If you were doing what Floyd was doing you'd HAVE to kick me in the balls. I'd punch a guy in he back of the head if that is all I could hit.

 

Ridiculous. Next rant please.

 

So if a fighter turns his back you should just not hit him?

 

Not in the fucking back, of course not. Its up to the official to punish a fighter who turns his back, via deductions and/or threat of disqualification.

I cannot believe this is even being asked. Are you fucking stupid? Do you even understand the rules of boxing and why they're necessary? Fucking christ.

 

:clap:

 

no. it's more to do with me. if Double L makes a post, disagree with it and act like you're personally offended by it.

 

Thats no act, let me tell you.

 

ridiculous. next rant please (or alternatively, take your medication and bring us the zombified From the Ashes, the one we're more likely to be able to tolerate).

 

well, if you're personally offended by remarks that i make about boxing in general, then you're just a bitch. i can't help you with that. sorry. ask your mother why you're such a bitch.

 

Calm your ass down dumbass. I didn't ask for you to clarify the rules, and I don't need you to.

ref just did not enforce the rules. I'd have punched Floyd all over the back of his head and his back every time he did that bullshit. If the ref isn't going to call it, fuck it, you may as well foul right back.

 

plus, it's not illegal to hit a fighter in the back if he turns his back to you. it's as simple as that. how can a fighter be expected not to hit his opponent in the back if the opponent turns his back to him?

 

Quoted, just in case you learn the rules and wish to come back and edit this.

 

Great. Thats what you'd do. I'm glad you told the forum about your mindset. It has absolutely no relevance to what HUMANS do though, nor is acting illegal in any way glorifying.

 

:: Yeah, I was gonna say... still against the rules.

 

where's the proof that it's illegal? steve dave's co-sign isn't exactly compelling evidence. sorry.

 

But considering Ashes and I actually know a thing or two about boxing, you should just take our word for it. Just like when I lectured you on the gloves a couple months ago. You can't hit on the back, ever.