Who's more proven: Mayweather or Jones?

Toney's "title" at 175 was the WBU.

And he didn't win a title at heavyweight because he was stupid and took steroids when he most likely would've outboxed Ruiz anyway.

 

Don't forget about the IBA heavyweight title.

 

Both have great talent. Neither have proven themselves great fighters.
For PBF, there is still time, I guess. At this stage I'd give the edge to RJJ.

 

Nonsense!

If neither of these guys are great then neither is Benitez, Griffith, Dempsey...and a whole bunch of other names i could mention.

 

Hatton was the WBU champ, and he turned out pretty good. He was declared the champion that evening, and I don't need a judge to tell me he beat the shit out of Ruiz.

Cupey

 

No.

Toney probably didn't need it, but he was positive anyway and lost his chance at the belt because of it. It's his fault, and he doesn't get a pass just because most people think he would've won if he hadn't taken it. You go by what happened. What happened is that he didn't get the win because of his own stupidity.

 

Yeah, he didn't get a win on paper. But that's like saying Holyfield-Lennox I was a draw. You know better. Steroids didn't school Ruiz, Toney did. He's the champion. Plus he stuck around the division and fought some tough names. Hell, he KO'd Holyfield or did people forget? What about his legendary fight with Jirov. Shit. This guy was classic in the big weights. I'd like to see any middleweight take Samuel Peters Punches.

Cupey

 

Yeah, a lot of people had him beating Rahman, too.

But by taking Peter's punch as much as he did, he not only won the first fight but lost the second fight...both in the same night, IMO.

 

If it was a no contest or dq because of marijuana you might have a point, but it wasn't. It was steroids. They help. They help lose weight, change your body, make you faster, make you stronger, etc. To disregard them because you don't think they mattered is a farce. Hell, even if they don't make any physical difference, they give someone a psychological edge. They are cheating, plain and simple.

 

This should be stickied and linked to every time someone bitches about a steroid test being meaningless to a fight result. Bzzzz wrong.

 

Fraud would have to dominate Castillo (not barely prove he's on equal terms with him) DOMINATE HIM, and dominate Oscar, and Mosely, and Margarito, then move up to his equivalent 'heavyweight' and dominate Kessler, then we've got to try to forget that he struggled against journeyman and even journeyman's bitches, usually by stinking the joint out with ofcourse the full utilisation of his illegal tactics in effect,.......this is just to get him into the POSITION mind you,.....to insult Roy Jones in this dreadful manner .

This thread is infact, just another terrible case of trying to 'fill the hole' left by Roy's absence.

 

Then why doesn't this apply to Roy Jones. Afterall, he got busted for taking steroids too!

Cupey

 

Afaik, Roy has only been busted once against Richard Hall. Hall also was busted for the same fight for having steroids and had a lot more in his test.

Elisa (can't remember her last name) at ummm...braggingrightscorner.com did a great series of pieces about it..pretty sure it was the indiana commission who freely supplied information about it....

as I remember, Elisa was apologetic for bringing forth this info. She shouldn't have been. I wish fighters got automatic losses instead of NC's when they test positive.

It's not like taking steroids suddenly became recognized as cheating in boxing...Watch Rocky 4. I never cared so much for them having Drago be a juicer, it would have been much cooler if he had just been a giant Russian with modern day training...but the reason they had him juicing was to imply that he was cheating.

So...to get to your post...it does apply to Roy. I've never said otherwise.

 

I think it was to imply all Soviet's cheated. ::

 

so what did Roy get for being busted? Automatic NC or a loss?

 

:bears: :bears:
Even thought Toney's an all time great, he never beat Ruiz

 

More proven? :notallthere:

This guys are way past proven.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Roy test turned negative on the B vial, that's why no sanctions were taken.

 

That's pure hatred

 

Neither. The Indiana commission didn't test for drugs at that time. The ABC busted him, not the athletic commission.

And seeing this wasn't made public until some 4 years after the event, what could they really do?

 

I've never hated anyone in my life.
Let me try & make myself clear;
RJJ is one of the most amazingly talented fighters I have ever seen, & I love watching him fight.
However, for me a great fighter is comprised of more than just great talent.
Ali, for me is a truly great fighter. He had amazing gifts (& some gift decisions-I can admit that even though he is my all-time favourite fighter).
In addition to his great gifts, he showed;
amazing courage, adaptability, toughness, the ability to triumph in the face of adversity, & a willingness to fight anyone-just to prove his greatness.
When his natural talents started to fade, we saw what a truly great fighter he really was. He got by on courage & guile. For me, it's those intangible things-The things that aren't merely the luck of genetics, like amazing speed & co-ordination, that make a fighter a truly great fighter, as opposed to a great talent.
For me, RJJ falls short in those departments. When he lost the edge off his natural ability, he did not display that stuff.

PBF, for me has yet to prove that he is an all-time great.
based on him squeezing past a past prime DLH who had fought once in 2 yrs, I see no reason to speculate that he is in the same league as SRL, Hearns & Hagler (as some have suggested).
In fact, squeaking by a past prime DLH who had fought once in 2 yrs in the way that he did is not enough for me to consider him any better than a touch below DLH, Tito & possibly Mosley.
By the way, that still makes him a damn good fighter. Trouble is, he & his fans carry on as though he is an all-time great. His performance on sat night did not indicate as much.

 

Oh, yeah,
I remember now, that is the guy that Roy KTFO in 1 round :clap:

 

Jones in his prime lost to Griffin
________
Hip problems advice

 

Griffen did a great acting job.

 

:: I agree! This isnt even close. A prime RJ was simply better than Mayweather Jr. I have great respect for Floyd even though I can't stand him, but you can't compare him to the great RJ.

 

To be perfectly honest with you:

You can't compare ANYONE (in history) with the great RJ in terms of overall talent.

 

Agreed!:bears:

 

when you have to put Judah and Baldomir in to round off his best top 5 wins, that says allot about a resume:shit: