Who's more proven: Mayweather or Jones?

Mayweather

He has beaten better fighters than Jones and more importantly, he hasn't avoided the matchups people are most interested in.

 

In a nutshell you're saying greatness is defined by more than a fighter's win-loss record.

I agree.. Roy and Floyd have one thing in common... I think they will both be more remembered for the fights they didn't make instead of the ones they did make.

No one sits around and says "Damn, I wish Leonard would have fought Duran" or "Damn, Hagler-Hearns would have been great"

Those fights happened and therein lies the gap between Roy, Floyd and the truly greats.

 

Who has Mayweather beaten that's better than Hopkins or Toney?:nono:

 

Yeah, but for Roy, you probably have to bring up Montell Griffin and Reggie Johnson to round out the top five.

I'm not sure if I'd have Baldomir and Judah in Mayweather's top five actually. Maybe Zab.

 

Better than the 1993 Bernard Hopkins????

1993 we're talking now

Corrales, Hernandez, Castillo, DLH now, and shit, throw Jesus Chavez in there too

Toney? nobody clearly better than him I'd agree.

But I gave you 4, maybe 5 fighters who were better than Bernard Hopkins was when he and Roy Jones fought. Hopkins didn't hit his peak as a truly great fighter until the late 90s

 

You're overstating that, Mr Dogg. Hopkins was a legit top 5 middleweight, in what was a very, very deep class at the time.

 

I remembered him

That fight was controversial but not in the close decision way I was referring.

 

Mayweather doesn't have 1 top 5 p4p boxer on his resume. JLC may have been boderline. Roy has two. discussion over.

 

What's to remember about Griffen anyway? How Roy got DQ'd after dropping him and hitting whil he was down and then destroying him in the rematch? Yeah, I remember it well. What does it have to do with anything though?

 

'93 Hopkins didn't lose again until 200...sh*t, some say he hasn't lost since.

He probably entered his prime around '95 but Jones hadn't hit his prime either when he fought Hopkins. Both were solid middleweights who went on to have phenomenal careers, certainly better than all of the names mentioned above.

 

:: :bears:

 

Ah, no, Roy has one: Toney.

 

....

Who's PFP top 5 are we going by?

 

Whoever's suits your argument the best?

 

Name someone of Roy's resume that was as good as Hatton or Cotto or Mosley..... Oh, nevermind...


Let's try this again. Name someone on Floyd's resume as good as Benn or Michalczewski or Collins.. Oh damn, nevermind again...

 

its Roy by a country mile.

as of right now, its a borderline not close call

 

Judah is in Zoo's top-2 :: :: ::

 

Yeah, and more than natural talent alone. Having great natural talent, makes a fighter a fighter with great natural talent. It doesn't neccessarily make a fighter a great fighter. Great natural talent is just genetics.

Ali as a prime example He was a fighter with great natural talent. And, for me the less tangible stuff that make a fighter truly great;
courage, adaptability, toughness, the ability to triumph in the face of adversity, & a willingness to fight anyone-just to prove his greatness.

RJJ had the great natural talent, however for me, he didn't have the less tangible stuff. Therefore, I consider RJJ a great natural talent, rather than a great fighter.

 

Talent = Potential, unless realized. There's been a lot of great talent over the years. How many accomplished what Jones did?

 

The Ring ranked Corrales #5 on the p4p list before he fought Mayweather.

He may have not deserved it, but that's where he was.

James Toney was #1 or #2 (Whitaker) when he fought Roy.

 

I think that you missed the point of my post(s).

RJJ is one of the most naturally talented fighters I've ever seen. However, there have been fighters with less natural talent that are more worthy of being regarded as great fighters.

 

Dude, if Roy and Floyd aren't "great fighters" then there's only about 35-40 boxers in history who can be called great. That's just stupid.

 

Kostya Tszyu is greater then either Roy or Floyd.

 

.. and Vernon Forrest is greater than Tszyu.

 

Talent goes to Jones

Achievement goes to Jones

 

I've stated my reasons quite clearly as to why I don't consider RJJ a truly great fighter, & why I don't regard PBF as one yet in my previous posts. I won't labour the point any further. If your definition of "great fighter" is "fighter with great natural talent", then that's really your choice.
I have a more critically reflective view, as I have outlined in previous posts.
Anyway, as I said, I won't labour the point any further.

 

....

Floyd and Jones were/are great fighters and not just based on talent.

 

I get you, although I think there are very few fighters who can be rated above Jones, great talent or not. Furthermore, there have been plenty of great talents who accomplished squat. The point is, great talent or not, Jones is still a great FIGHTER. You don't accomplish what he accomplished on just talent alone.

 

Who's #1? Mitchell?

 

Roy