Foreman claims he was drugged vs. Ali

Ali leaned against the ropes and let people pound on him.

Jimmy Young leaned through the ropes, with half his body hanging outside the ring & out of reach. The only thing you could do to him then was hit him in the cup.


For all of Foreman's excuses re: Zaire, you could make a bit of a case for a short count. Foreman was on his feet at 9, but Zack Clayton didn't check to see if he could continue he merely kept counting. It's all a moot point, regardless.

 

Marciano was a monster! :bears:

 

:laughing:

 

:dunno:

Someone OTHER than the OLDEST Heavyweight Champ N History (@ the Time)????...Someone OTHER than a 42 Year Former MIDDLEWEIGHT(& Reigning Lightheavy Champ)???...Someone OTHER than the GHOST of Joe Louis???:dunno: :dunno: ...

Hell,even Ezzard Charles is a Former MIDDLEWEIGHT...

The Mob CLEARLY CONTROLLED the Rankings & Consequently the Champions AND Title Shots...We Also Know the Mob CLEARLY CONTROLLED the OUTCOMES of Many Fights,but U're Gonna Honestly Sit Here,SPECULATING on Ali like a Private Detective,w/Out Acknowledging the VERY REAL Possibility that Marciano Could've BENEFITTED from HIS Liasons???...

It was N the BEST INTERESTs of EVERYONE Involved to KEEP Marciano UNdefeated & N WINNABLE Fights,Back Then...

& Sorry,Playing "Musical Chairs" w/your Pro/Ammy Career (to DISGUISE Losses) is SHADIER than Anything that Happened w/Ali IN the Ring...

What Triggered REED's Response was YOUR Assertion that You're "Unbiased" as it Pertains to Ali...REED Remembers DEBATING w/U on JAWS' Forum Back N the Day...U're NOT Unbiased when it Comes to Ali:nono: ...

The Allegations U Made N your Postings R EVIDENCE...

REED

ps. Ali's Resume DEFECATES on Marciano's...

 

No, but the punch behind the head to Rocky used to stop Charles was.

Ted Lowry.

 

Am totally unbiased about Ali, just not blind. Ali was a great heavy, at least #1 or 2 all time, but he had many contraversies if you can deny that then perhaps I'm not the biased one....

You still didn't answer who Rocky should've fought, was there better than Charles, Moore, Walcott, Louis out there at the time, if so name them.......

As for the Charles was a middleweight or whatever, we could do that all day long with any fighter and I personally find it a waste of energy...

 

Valdez deserved the title shot over Charles.

 

Perhaps the Fighters who BEAT him as he FLIP-FLOPPED from Pro & Ammy???...

Edit* By the Way,REED is Definitely NOT "Unbiased" as it Pertains to REED...REED Absolutely ADORES Muhammad Ali...w/Out EVER Meeting him,Ali is 1 of THE Most IMPORTANT People to REED's Existence...

But REED can READILY ADMIT that Ali Got Quite a Few GIFTS N his Career...No Doubt about it...

Ali is a LIGHTNING Rod...REED has YET to Meet even ONE Boxing Fan who's 100% "UNbiased" as it Pertains to the Man...

 

makes about as much sense as Ali taking on Kent Green

 

If your referring to his win over Charles in 53, then ok I can kinda see that although his confidence wasn't really there as he had lost 4 or 5 in a row previously. He did however get a chance at it a couple years later but lost to Moore who went on to fight Rock.

 

He's got a new book, he was talking about this very issue on Dan Patrick today.

 

In defense of Marciano, it wasn't his fault that Walcott was the then-oldest Heavyweight champion. You want a shot at the title, Walcott happened to be the champ, etc.

Ezzard Charles as a heavyweight was past his prime, but he was still a worthy contender as he had recently completed a four-fight series with the guy Rocky went to hell and back with in their first fight, Jersey Joe Walcott.

You shouldn't hold Archie Moore's age against him when referencing his fight w/Marciano, because we all know that Moore was a freak of nature. Age meant nothing when he is concerned, plus he was the reigning Light Heavyweight champion. Moving up back then wasn't as drastic weight-wise as it is now, as it was only a 10-15 pound difference in weight (as opposed to a 25 pound increase just to hit the 200 minimum, not taking into account that the average heavyweight today weighs around 225-230, which is a 50 pound difference).

True, Marciano's opposition wasn't the greatest ever, but he fought the best available opposition (as did Larry Holmes in the 80's). Guys like Patterson and Liston were still a few years away and Marciano was already an aging fighter. Sure he could have fought other guys like Valdez, or maybe a Bob Satterfield if he were more active, but would it have made that much of a difference?

 

I am not marciano fan, but I agree with you. I feel that Marciano is overrated, but you can't really take a dig about opposition - he fought the guys that were around at the time.

 

I would actually give Marciano more credit here than larry.

Holmes fought quite a few guys with like 15 or so pro fights (while none of the WBA titlists, probably on orders from King) and didn't rematch the guys who gave him tough fights, while Marciano rematched Lowry, Lastarza, Walcott, and Charles.