So tell me again how the UFC isn't aligning itself with boxing

Point taken, wrong choice of words. I was looking to point out that the UFC does in fact use boxing to promote itself, to dispute claims to the contrary, often made by UFC apologists on this very board.

To your earlier claim - I didn't post this thread because I feel "threatened" by UFC's success. I posted it because that press release caught my eye. It was an obvious dig at boxing. Only the irony being the one cat they've been hyping up forever winds up fighting tentatively (to put it kindly) and gets put down with the first real punch Rampage landed.

 

No doubt. If I want to watch a guy dance around and afraid to mix it up, I'll watch the Floyd-Oscar fight tape.. At least Floyd does it with style.

 

Floyd is a legend. None of these MMA bums can hold Floyds jockstrap.

 

Liddell doesn't have the skills to move like Mayweather...and Floyd did mix it up, but just wasn't KOTFO like we thought he woud be if he did.

 

You could say the same about boxing.....what % of the crowd at the Ali fights were white? Shit...even at the Foreman-Ali fight, the crowd was STILL white.

 

What about Sanche vs. Gomez, Duran vs. De Jesus, etc,etc....of course whites are going to be the majority of fans on all/any sports..basketball, football the fans would be 60-70% white..they are the majority of the population in the country. The problem with the ufc fans at least the recent ones is that they are not a fan of mma, but fans of ufc and ufc fightrs like Liddell, Couture, Hughes, Ortiz, let see how the react to the NON american fighters coming over from Pride...that will surely dominate all the establish UFC champions.

 

Of course they will...and hey...I always disagreed with the cracker mentality of the UFC....its glorified youtube bullshit. Thats all. I never liked it. I think guys from Pride are waaaaay better.

 

I'm not sure you can say the same thing about boxing.

Depending on the location and fighters involved, you might see an American crowd with vast numbers of Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Filipinos, etc.

 

I'm not into MMA like before. But all I've heard and saw on the sports networks was that Chuck Lidell was the face of UFC, basically their biggest star. Well him getting Owned in one minuted ended all that last night. :laughing:

 

And even at that, boxing fans knew what to expect up front. Maybe true-blue UFC fans expected a 2 minute fight, but certainly not the 100's or so that personally demanded I order this fight last night (which I didn't, but watched online for free moments later).

That's why I never went along with the tagline that it was our 'duty' as boxing fans to ensure that everyone ordered Floyd-Oscar. I didn't want to recommend a fight that I thought should sell itself anyway.

All that said, boxing isn't big around this way; MMA (and UFC in particular) is, though to be expected in NASCAR country. There are more and more shows popping up in Kentucky and Mississippi (Tennessee still classifies it as toughman, which is banned in the state).

The Showtime MMA show in Mississippi earlier in the year drew 7,500 fans; the ShoBox super middleweight finals held in the same arena a month prior had an announced paid attendance of 82 :: (about 400 people in the arena in total, including the Showtime staff and Gary Shaw Productions). So there definitely is a market for the sport that boxing clearly isn't capturing. But the crowd it attracts is along the lines of the suggestions within this thread.

Anyway, all that said, was curious to see the PPV turnout for this one. In and around Nashville, I'd say that 1 out of 10 had a Floyd-Oscar poster in the front window. No fewer than 8 out of 10 had a poster up for this fight, and almost every bar was showing the fight.

 

ufc>boxing. Deal with it.

 

You like it more or it's more popular?

 

I like watching the 6 good boxing fights there are per year more, but the UFC IS VASTLY SUPERIOR IN TERMS of marketability and boxing could learn a lot from it. I would much rather pay for a UFC ppv than a boxing PPV with one fight which sucks like Oscar/Floyd.

 

Fuck Chuck Liddel, watch fighters like Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera, or recently Fedor Emelianenko, these guys have truelly raised the bar, Chuck Liddel on the otherhand is just part of the old bar room brawling prototype, he's never distinguished himself as a standout, maybe in the UFC as they were reshuffling him around with Tito Ortiz or a 50 year old ex-wrestler in Randy Courture,..but the UFC has always seriously sucked in comparison to Pride.

 

so i'm not a racist..?

 

I like Boxing and I like MMA

I heard most of the fights last night ended up being KTFO's or submissions. :clap:

 

I think that the UFC is basicially the WWF-WWE, WCW Whatever but with real contact.
Even Dana White (That fake ass boxing hater) reminds me of Vince McMahon::

Wrestling never overcame boxing and neither will the extreme humperama that be, UFC.

 

It's no secret that the UFC's marketing approach borrowed heavily from pro wrestling (and boxing) - including it's reality tv series - and draws heavily from the fan base that was built by Vince McMahon and the WWF.

 

You do realize they are fighting with 4 OZ gloves, right?

Liddell would brutalize Tommy Morrison.

He fought an accomplished golden gloves boxer in Noe Hernandez and took him down and lay and prayed his way to an easy decision. He also has knocked out Guy Metzger, Alistair Overeem and nearly knocked out Vitor Belfort. All of those guys are very solid strikers.

What about Nishijima who was a cruiserweight champ 0-3 in PRIDE??

Or Melton Bowen who was a solid fighter lost to a "ninja" cop, Steve Jennum.
Or Joe Louis, who said if Helio Gracie (135 LBS) got a hold of him he would be done for (even before MMA existed)

Two guys won last night simply utitlizing boxing techniques, but these guys have other skill sets as well and saying it is a skilless brawl is equivalent to saying boxing is a pillow fight.

hahaha maybe you should join the UFC 3OG, you'd brutalize all those guys im sure

 

:dunno: really...Morrison would kill Liddell in the octagon or a ring....unless Morrison gassed out...but i think he has the stamina it take for the ko...what 30-40 seconds..?

 

Morrison in his prime I'd give a good 25% chance at beating Liddell in the octagon but not anymore.

Despite what happened last night Chuck has a proven chin, and with his leg kicks and wrestling background Tommy Morrison would never be in position to land any shots like the ones Rampage landed last night.

Liddell has taken heavy shots from Vitor Belfort, Alistair Overeem, Pele, Rampage in the first fight, Guy Metzger and never been KOed...last night he took a big shot right on the chin when he was out of position.

A boxer that could possibly succeed in MMA is someone like Oneil Bell or Kermit Cintron who already have extensive wrestling backgrounds.

 

Are you going to bring up Jens Pulver and Chris Lytle, next?

I was actually at the fight Nishjima was flattened by McKenzie...not sure what made him a champion (despite what the WBF says). Calling him a champ may cut it on an MMA board, but not a boxing one.

The same with calling Melton Bowen a solid fighter. Most fans who have followed the sport long enough can probably still remember his 30 seconds against Shannon Briggs on TNF.

Last night amounted to a boxing match between two amateur boxers...one of whom (Liddell) looked completely intimated by the striking ability of the other. He was on his bike the entire fight, and threw most of the few punches he did throw like he didn't even want to land...and got caught after throwing an atrocious left to the body. (BTW, just thought I'd say it amazes me what passes for "footwork" in MMA - according to Randy Couture).

I have respect for the sport of MMA. I've seen several events in person and follow it on tv and the internet to some degree, but fans like you who come on boxing message boards and start making posts like yours are part of the reason why some boxing fans aren't more receptive to the sport.

 

Chuck's garbage!::Anybody who knew anything about MMA knew that Chuck was getting victories over 'wrestlers' with no idea how to throw hands. Rampage is just too good for him in every way. Rampage actually has a clue how to throw and how to slip. Chuck can't deal with somebody who shows a little upper body movement. That's the difference between KOing wrestlers compared to strikers. Chuck is a sorry-ass striker, dude has so many flaws in his game, it's laughable.

 

you do realize i've been a boxing fan much longer than an MMA fan and am currently battling the sherdog retards who claim any MMA fighter could beat any elite boxer. ask anyone from boxingtime, boxingtalk, or even back at boxing.com.

shane mosely came into gracie barra and was getting submitted by white belts, and in an interview said he would never fight a jiu-jitsu guy cuz theyd just break his arm. winky wright who also has trained with some jiu-jitsu players is always quick to say he is a boxer and not a fighter. or how bout vitali klitschko. he said in a kickboxing or MMA fight he would get killed by mirko cro cop after one training session with him.

even mike tyson on howard stern was quick to point out he had wrestled with tito ortiz and would get brutalized in the octagon by him.

noone is saying yousuke or melton are good boxers, but bowen is a better boxer than jennum is a ninjitsu fighter and he lost despite having a huge strength and weight disadvantage.

i was on the boxing bandwagon even harder than illuminati until i started training and competing in jiu-jitsu.

"fans like you" im a fan of common sense, and for someone to say Tommy Morrison would defeat Chuck Liddell in mixed martial arts is an idiot.

"what passes as footwork"...you would think youd realize being quite the MMA expert appparently you cant use boxing footwork efficiently in a real fight situation against someone throwing leg kicks and when the fight doesnt stop once you enter the clinch.

calling rampage and liddell amateur boxers shows how much respect you really have for the sport (zero) because both guys are top caliber athletes, and with zero boxing skills would STILL be able to defeat 95% of professional boxers in the octagon.

its funny because i box and do jiu jitsu and whenever im boxing, im telling the scrubs there who say UFC sucks how theyd get their ass kicked...and when im doing jiu-jitsu im always defending boxing against the "high school wrestlers could beat up bernard hopkins"

boxing fans are not receptive to the sport the same way MMA fans are not receptive to boxing. they are ignorant and have no experience or appreciation for two sports that for some reason are always battling for supremacy, instead of co-existing.

 

Agreed, I really want to see the landscape for the UFC a year from now. How will the new UFC fanatics react now that their brash american fighters like Ortiz and Liddell have taken a backseat? Now there's an influx of foreign fighters whom none of these new UFC fans have heard of. It all began on that dreadful night when non-english speaking Anderson Silva murdered the Dana White's boy Rich Franklin. Now Chuck has just gotten butchered by Rampage Jackson. What's even funnier is that now we're going to have Jackson vs Henderson, 2 Pride fighters competing in a UFC title fight inside the UFC cage. I don't think that's going to interest the young UFC fanatics as much as Ortiz vs Liddell did.:: Seeing that they don't even know who Henderson is. Well they better accept it, because Pride is taking over!:clap:
You're right about the UFC fans. They're not MMA fans, they're strictly UFC fans and the homegrown talent is getting taken down one by one!
I wonder if the UFC fans will maintain their interest with the foreign fighters invading the octagon.

 

:bears: :bears:

This is one of the lamest divisions in message board history. Does Lennox Lewis suck because he has no ground game? No, he is a boxer. Does Chuck Lidell suck because he'd get ktfo by Tarver in a boxing match, no. Two different sports. It is like saying Lawrence Taylor sucks because he is a garbage boxer(which he is, I have seen him box). Ok, he was a great football player and luckly he made his living in the NFL.

 

:clap: That's a good post. Although I don't ever recall hearing Tyson or Vitali ever talk about getting killed by the likes of CroCop or Ortiz.

 

C'mon Hanz, I know you don't know that much about MMA but come on dude.

Are you seriously arguing Rampage is a better striker than Alistair Overeem or Vitor Belfort??

Chuck has beaten Pele Landi-Jons who is a lethal striker. Kevin Randleman who knocked out a kickboxing world champion. Vitor Belfort who has great hands and knees.

He's also beaten world class fighters such as Renato "Babalu" Sobral (only man who really has beaten Mauricio Rua), Randy Couture, Jeremy Horn, Tito Ortiz, and Guy Metzger (former kickboxing champion as well) by knockout.

Not to mention decision wins over Murilo Bustamante (who nearly beat a prime Rampage) and Jeff Monson.

Chuck has many flaws in his game. But all of those fighters I just listed are definitely elite and Chuck beat them all...without controversy. His "flaws" are also strong points, and he has exploited them to his advantage for years against a who-is-who of the MMA elite.

In other posts you definitely seemed to know some shit about MMA...what's the deal? :dunno:

 

I don't care about Chuck Liddell or his style of fighting. And I'm not the only one saying it. Even the most hardcore followers of MMA on the Dogpound or MMAfighting or MMAnews will tell you the same. Chuck's success lately has been the result of beating on 'pretend strikers'. I don't have a problem with Chuck winning fights but that style of his just looked too awkward for me to really take him seriously. I always felt, as did millions of others, that he'd be put to the test by somebody who had some striking skills. Remember, it was the great Fedor Emelianenko who said recently that in order to have the best chances of competing in MMA, wrestling and boxing would be the 2 ideal styles. One would not be a complete fighter without knowledge of both styles.
It so happens, Jackson can do both alot better than Chuck plus he's physically stronger, faster and more fluid.

 

Hardcore fans of MMA...love what will be the UFC in a few months/years..the best from around the world all under one company. The fanbase UFC has acquired the last 2-3 years will probably be piss cause few of the top guys are american. thats all i'm saying...now if they stay as fans of the sport..then UFC will keep growing...if not then it will come back down to earth..still sell a ton of ppv..but not as much as they been doing in the last year or 2...