Most over-rated Currently....

SRL - barely in the fight against Hearns until he caught him on the chin; beaten up thoroughly by Duran; lost to ancient Hagler imo; ducked Curry and McCallum; got his ass kicked by Norris;

Of course, there's no shame in any of these. But people do need to take it into account the next time they find themselves automatically picking SRL against just about anyone in MM, and thinking that he's invincible and without any weaknesses whatsoever.

 

If you minus the rhetoric /straw-personing from this post, there is basically no post left.

 

double L, this is dumb by your standards, objectively. Leonard = 2nd GOAT

 

I should close this thread.

 

Who says that Gay Ray is invincible or flawless?

 

In a matches up great against anyone sense...

Me

 

wow...more hate against sugar ray.

1). Tommy was ahead after 12 rounds, but Ray had Tonmmy badly hurt in the 6th round. In fact, Tommy was so hurt he purposely stayed away from Ray.

2). The 1st fight with Duran has always been reported inaccurately. Duran clearly won "however" Ray made a damn good run down the stretch and probably won the last couple rounds. It's not like he got his ass whupped for 15 rounds.

I have no issues picking Ray against most of the guys today. I think he kills Oscar and Tito simply due to styles however a guy like Mosley or Meldrick Taylor would have been tough for him because of their handspeed.

Ray beat many different kinds of guys which is why it's difficult to pick against him. Even in the fight with Mayweather, ray showed the ability to take shots and more importantly stand in and throw hard shots consistently.

I don't have a problem picking Ray against any of the welters of the past 20 years. His skill set across the board is better than anyone else.

Mind you, I hate Ray as much as I've ever hated any other fighter. His greatest two fights as far as I'm concerned are the Camacho and Norris fights.

 

....

Funny people find a way to hate on a guy who beat Hearns,Duran,Benitez and Hagler :: Terry Norris? yeah SRL was still in top form when he fought Norris. :: He was losing to Hearns but it was competitive. Leonard knocked him out in the end. Lost to Duran but avenged it and LOL @ talking about a guy with SRL's resume ducking people. ::

 

Terrible summary of Leonard's career...:doh:

 

Leonard is one of the ten greatest fighters of all-time.

 

One of the ten greatest amateurs ever, I would agree, yes.
All time greatest in the pros?
I don't see it, no way, no how.
A truly great fighter and Hall of Famer, but Ray dosen't crack the top ten, not IMO he dosen't.

 

This is the shittiest topic I've seen in 6 months.

 

:nono:

http://www.fightbeat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17427

 

JOE LOUIS

JOE LOUIS

This guy got floored and/or almost KO'd by, inter alia,

Tony Galento: the very antithesis of a professional fighter.

Billy Conn: 160lb power-puff merchant

Buddy Baer: Excuse me? Who did you say?

JJ Braddock: Another outstanding talent.

Oh sure, Joe beat all those guys. But if Galentos 3/4 left is flooring you, then what is Klitschkos hook or Lennys right going to do. And they could all reach Joe...probably had faster feet too.

What guys like Lewis, either Klitschko, Ali, Tyson would do to this guy I hate to think.

 

Ridiculous, he has such a better resume than Louis or Monzon its staggering.

Leonard had zero weaknesses and beat a WW Thomas Hearns/Benitez/Duran and then a MW Hagler.

He is the perfect fighter, besides his propensity for running like a girl against true (non-keyboard) warriors. (and even then it was objectively effective)

 

He arguably lost to Hagler, and he did lose to Duran. Of the elite triplet of Leonard, Hagler and Hearns, only Leonard lost to Duran.

 

dude i am not gonna take away the credit deserved the GOAT (duran) for beating leonard. But duran despite wat he looks like now was not built to be anywhere near 160. not to mention pushing 80+ fights over 18 years at the times he fought Hearns and hagler.

That said, I will always say Hagler should have deserved the decision, but it could go either way.

Nevermind that Hagler and Duran could easily be argued as top 20 fighters in history

 

Top 20 P4P

1. Ray Robinson: - Most talented fighter of all-time. #1 welterweight and my #2 middleweight. I do tend to flip flop between Robinson and Duran depending on my mood. Ray was the BEST fighter of all-time and in my opinion, also the greatest.

2. Roberto Duran: - In his lightweight prime, Duran has my vote for the fighter who came the closest to perfection. The man was an absolute beast, who once released upon his opponents would systematically mutilate them as the rounds passed. Also happened to take out an undefeated Leonard @ 147 and won the middleweight crown as well.

3. Henry Armstrong: - The greatest in your face fighter in history. Had power to spare in each hand and the will to give it to you for 15. 19 welterweight defences, featherweight, lightweight and welterweight champion simultaneously. Top 3 all-time @ 126, 135 and 147. What else needs be said?

4. Muhammad Ali: - Sometimes falls below Louis because critics favour Joe's offensive talents, over Ali's all around physical ability. For his size, he had incredible hand speed, a terrific chin and just beat everybody in the greatest heavyweight era of all-time. No other justification is needed.

5. Ezzard Charles: - Could possibly be the most underrated fighter of all-time. I continually come across people who say "Ezzard Charles? You mean the guy that beat the old Joe Louis?" No, I mean Ezzard Charles, the man who dominated Archie Moore three times and every other light heavyweight of his era. Without doubt in my mind, the #1 light heavyweight all-time, who also happened to be an excellent heavyweight champion in his time as well.

6. Joe Louis: - Near flawless offensive fighter, with all the punches in the book. Could through combinations like he was a middleweight, but possessed the punch of a small explosive device. Record number of heavyweight title defences, and had the heart to possibly beat anyone who ever lived.

7. Eder Jofre: - This Brazilian wonder, was the best bantamweight of all-time. Terrific boxer-puncher who gave just about the best imitation of a 118 pound Ray Robinson as anyone ever could. Only two losses of his career came in back to back fights to the great Fighting Harada, when Jofre had great difficulty making the 118-pound limit.

8. Carlos Monzon: - My #1 middleweight of all-time. The lanky Argentinean used his jab and long right hands to slowly dismantle his opponents. He didn't LOOK like a one of the best fighters of all-time now and then, but once the slow starting Monzon got rolling, little could be done to derail him. Held the record for most middleweight defences, until Bernard Hopkins recently broke it. Possibly the owner of the best 1-2 in boxing. It was a perfect compliment to a man who won via the textbook.

9. Harry Greb: - In large, he remains a mystery, but to not include him would tarnish his legend. I've decided to place him here, although I don't feel confident no matter where he is. His record however does speak for itself. Only man to defeat Gene Tunney. Has wins over Mickey Walker, Tiger Flowers, Tommy Loughran and Kid Norfolk. Over 300 fights, with a winning percentage of over 90.

10. Ray Leonard: - Here is a pick that I believe may irk a few. Leonard has the resume and the talent to be within the top five, yet sits @ 10. Why? Well, his career really did stop and start, thus eliminating the sort of draw out dominance, which I like to see. Hagler was on his last legs and I still think he did enough to retain his title. Splitting with Duran is fine, and stopping Tommy Hearns and Wilfred Benitez are great wins. Just too many retirements unfortunately, ruined his prime.

11. Willie Pep: - The best defensive fighter of all-time. How do you beat someone you can't touch with a broomstick? Won 135 of his first 136 fights, with the only loss to lightweight king, Sammy Angot. Even after a plane crash nearly killed him, he was still able to knock off top competition. Sandy Saddler may have had his number, but there is no shame in that.


12. Sam Langford: - Dominant fighter at just about every weight from welterweight upward. Incredible KO power in each hand, chin and immense talent/ability for his time. Without doubt, the greatest fighter never to win a world title, even though he was never afforded the chance.

13. Archie Moore: - The all-time record holder of KO wins, Archie is a popular choice as the #1 light heavyweight of all-time. Personally, I don't like him there, but there is little not to love about the 'Old Mongoose'. As crafty as anyone who ever fought, Moore's patience and punch helped him be dominant well into his 40's. Might have even been a better middleweight, but we might never know.

14. Marvin Hagler:- The dominant middleweight, during a terrific period for 160 pounders. Has wins over hall of famers, Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran along with a razor thin, and very controversial loss to Sugar Ray Leonard. A tough, iron chined, yet incredibly talented fighter, Hagler was a joy to watch. Conjured up images of Carlos Monzon, such was the manor in which he ruled the division. They are split narrowly on head-to-head ability. I think Monzon was the better fighter.

15. Benny Leonard: - If Pep was the best defensive fighter of all-time; Benny would not be far behind. A genius in the ring, he had talents many men ranked above him lacked. Good punch, and Ray Arcel will insist he was better then Duran. I don't quite think that, but as a lightweight, it is indeed a close race between the two.

16. Alexis Arguello: - I won't deny, I am a proud member of the Alexis Arguello fan club, and why not? Alexis' accomplishments over his long career were tremendous. A champion from featherweight to lightweight, he almost added the Jr. Welterweight title to his list. If it were not for another great, named Aaron Pyror, he would have. Tall, rangey, power puncher, with a crowd pleasing style. Great, great fighter.

17. Gene Tunney: - How good was a man, whose only loss in 86 fights, was to the great Harry Greb? Damn good. As one of the best light heavyweights of all-time, Tunney's greatest accomplishment might just be stepping up and defeating the legendary heavyweight, Jack Dempsey, in back-to-back fights to take his title. He retired as an undefeated champion, after making just one more defence. What holds him back is avoiding coloured fighters.

18. Pernell Whitaker: - 'Sweet Pea' might be mentioned along with Pep as the toughest guy to hit, that ever lived. I don't agree though. Still, Pernell used crazy angles to duck and avoid punches from and coupled with his southpaw stance, he was a simply invisible in there at times. Lightweight-Welterweight champion and even went up and won the 154-pound title. His first loss without much controversy was against Felix Trinidad, at a time when Pernell had little left. Is however best remembered for his "draw" with Julio Cesar Chavez.


**I rank fighters on the following criteria:

1. Display of skills, abilities and technique

2. Accomplishments

3. Competition

4. Dominance

5. Longevity,

And finally

6. Head-to-head, against the other greats.

**No current fights are ranked, as I do not like chopping and changing my lists as fighters win and lose. Once they retire, they become eligible for inclusion. Thus excuses the possible absence of Hopkins and Jones Jr.

 

Sam Langford......please.:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :doh: :doh:

 

Nice list, but I didn't think you thought that highly of Pernell.

 

Anytime Whitaker is mentioned, I immediately slip into "Fuck Joons" mode.

 

The best fighter I've seen is perhaps Roy, but Leonard is the greatest fighter I've seen...better than any footage I've seen of SRR and far better than Duran's.
And since Roy didn't prove it anywhere to the extent Ray did...Leonard gets mY #1 spot.

 

Meldrick Taylor? Are you high? Ray would've murdered Taylor!

 

Double is just bitter cuz Ray is better than, and woulda wiped his ass with Double's hero, De La Slap Flurry.

 

Of all the fighters in history that you can pick to be overated...you pick Leonard..? :doh:

 

Yep...

DeLa could Never ESCAPE or SURPASS the Leonard Comparisons...

DeLa-Quartey AND DeLa-Tito were BLATANTLY Sold as Contemporary Versions of Leonard-Hearns I...

DeLa-Bernard was BLATANTLY Sold as a Contemporary Version of Leonard-Hagler...

Despite the Level of Success he Had,DeLa RODE Leonard's Coattails to a LARGE Degree....& it IRKS the Shit Out of DOUB,Obviously...


REED

 

Still, in your opinion whats the explanation for his De La Hoya love and Ray hate though?

 

BLIND Loyalty to DeLa...

BOTH Leonard AND DeLa R SELFISH,FAKE,LYING OPPORTUNISTS...They're More ALIKE than Different,Undoubtedly...

But DOUB is INCAPABLE of Seeing that Side of DeLa...



REED

 

Homosexuality.

 

But why De La Hoya and not Ray, when we agree that they are basically the same guy...just from a different time, different caliber of fighter...and a different colour?