Old Barrera topic...

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by Tam Tam, Jun 12, 2007.

  1. Tam Tam

    Tam Tam "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    ...thought it might get some fingers typing.



    Our sport has traditionally been dominated by the heavyweights. Ali, Louis, Tyson, Marciano, Holyfield; these are the men most fans can contect with immediately. But recently, the heavyweights have become mired in mediocrity and quite frankly, don't interest many people at all. Who cares if they're big, muscly and look impressive? They can't throw two punches in a row, that hit a 50ft sized target. So we look elswhere for our stars. The feathers have been one such haven for talent.

    Unfortunately in todays boxing world, most boxing fans fall into two categories; A Morales fan or Barrera fan. This quite frankly, sucks. Because the two of them come from completely different ends of the spectrum in terms of upbringing and they stand for such different things, fans have become quite divided and can rarely speak highly of the other.

    Im the first to admit that I am no longer a fan of Erik Morales. I think he's a classes goon who is primed to get his nosed punched in. But he's clearly a great fighter and is acknowledged that almost everyday. What I think is wrong, is that alot of fans seem to think the two are very similar, in terms of their overall career. I think its time someone put that to rest and gave the credit Barrera deserves. He's the greatest thing to come out of Mexico since Chavez and one of the VERY best the country has ever produced. Perhaps only Chavez and Sanchez were greater.

    I am going to attempt to give you guys some perspective into what Im talking about. Yup, its just numbers, but sometimes numbers are the most easily communicated.

    Julio Cesar Chavez
    Years Active: 1980-2005*
    Record: 108-5-2 (87 KOs)
    Championship Record: 31-4-2 (21 KOs)
    Multiple Weight Success? Yes. Junior Lightweight, Lightweight and Super Lightweight.
    World Champions Faced: 22. 16 wins, 4 losses, 2 draws.

    Salvador Sanchez
    Years Active: 1975-1982
    Record: 44-1-1 (32 KOs)
    Championship Record: 10-0 (5 KOs)
    Multiple Weight Success? No.
    World Champions Faced: 5. 5 wins, No losses.

    Ruben Olivares
    Years Active: 1965-1981, 1986-1988
    Record: 88-13-3 (78 KOs)
    Championship Record: 8-5 (6 KOs)
    Multiple Weight Success? Yes. Bantamweight and Featherweight.
    World Champions Faced: 15. 7 wins, 8 losses.

    Carlos Zarate
    Years, Active: 1970-1979, 1986-1988
    Record: 66-4 (63 KOs)
    Championship Record: 10-4 (10 KOs)
    Multiple Weight Success? No.
    World Champions Faced: 7. 3 wins, 4 losses.

    Miguel Canto
    Years Active: 1969-1982
    Record: 61-9-4 (15 KOs)
    Championship Record: 15-2-1 (1 KO)
    Multiple Weight Success? No
    World Champions Faced: 11. 5 wins, 3 losses 1 draw.

    Ricardo Lopez
    Years Active: 1985-2001
    Record: 51-0-1 (38 KOs)
    Championship Record: 25-0-1 (19 KOs)
    Multiple Weight Success? Yes. Strawweight and Junior Flyweight
    World Champions Faced: 11. 10 wins, No losses and 1 draw

    Humberto Gonzalez
    Years Active:1984-1995
    Record: 43-3 (31 KOs)
    Championship Record: 15-3 (8 KOs)
    Multiple Weight Success? No
    World Champions Faced: 11. 8 wins, 3 losses.

    Vicente Saldivar
    Years Active: 1961-1967, 1969-1971, 1973
    Record: 37-3-0 (26 KOs)
    Championship Record: 9-2 (5 KOs)
    Multiple Weight Success? No.
    World Champions Faced: 9. 7 wins, 2 losses.

    Daniel Zaragoza
    Years Active: 1980-1997
    Record: 55-8-3 (28 KOs)
    Championship Record: 16-5-3 (5 KOs)
    Multiple Weight Success? Yes. Bantamweight and Super Bantamweight.
    World Champions Faced: 19. 10 wins, 6 losses and 3 draws

    Erik Morales
    Years Active: 1993-2005*
    Record: 48-2 (34 KOs)
    Championship Record: 18-2 (11 KOs)
    Multiple Weight Success? Yes. Super Bantam, Featherweight, Super Featherweight.
    World Champions Faced: 16. 14 Wins, 2 losses.

    Marco Antonio Barrera
    Years Active: 1989-2005*
    Record 60-4 (42 KOs)
    Championship Record: 19-3 (13 KOs)
    Multiple Weight Success? Yes. Super Bantam, Featherweight, Super Featherweight.
    World Champions Faced: 19. 15 wins, 4 losses.

    What does all this mean? Well, first of all, it must be made out that fighters like Chavez, Barrera, Lopez, Zaragoza and Morales, fought under the Four World Champion era, instead of the Two World Champion (or One) era. This obviously means that their numbers in both the world title fights AND world champions faced categories, will be inflated, possibly two-fold, OR four fold.

    Also of note, is the weight class introduction AND previous day weigh-ins. Its inflated the numbers of world champions again AND allowed for a far easier passage for the fighters through weight classes. It really puts into perspective what Saldivar and Sanchez were able to do, in such short careers.

    However, in comparison with the greats, Barrera comes out smelling nicely. Not included in his world championship record, are his wins over Hamed, Sanchez, Tapia and Kelly as he held no recognised championship belt at the time, even though he was the #1 fighter in the division. That is very impressive. More impressive, is the fact that Barrera started out his career as a Flyweight and was in line for a shot at the WBC 115 pound championship, before moving up in weight to fight @ 122.

    When people speak of Morales and Barrera being equals, they are not telling the full story. Morales is clearly the bigger man and on the night of their last fight, (Barrera's first @ 130), Morales weight 144 pounds. A full ELEVEN pounds more than Barrera. A Lightweight fighting a welterweight. Barrera's victory that night cannot be over stated. It was a gigantic performance, at the tail end of his career, against his hated rival.

    How great has Barrera been? Its hard to say, as these kinds of things are subjective. What I do know is, that Marco doesn't always get the credit he deserves, for the boatlod of work he has put in, in his career. Yes, he got creamed by Jones AND Pacquiao. No, he didn't (hasn't) avenged either of those. But consider the quality of opposition he has defeated in his career and you begin to get a picture of what kind of a fighter we've been witnessing over the last decade or so.

    Before his loss to Jones, Barrera was 43-0. A 22 year old prodigy, who was ranked in the top 5 P4P at the time. Only Jones, Whitaker, De La Hoya and Trinidad were in front of him. It wasn't until he upset (even though not given the decision) Morales in 2000, did he become a recognised great, once again. After beating Hamed AND Morales in 2001 and 2002 (close, could have gone the other way) he again shot into the top 5. 6 years had passed and he was still in his late 20's.

    Pacquiao's beating, left many thinking his career was over. Again he was forgotten and when he stepped in with a living legend in Morales for the third time, in a fight nobody thought he would win...he beat Morales up and put on a career defining performance.

    Appreciate him while you have him guys, because fighters like Barrera don't come along all too often. He doesn't have long left, but while he's here, I'll be enjoying every second of it.

    Viva Barrera!
     
  2. StingerKarl

    StingerKarl Ace Degenerate

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    Who is the hero that wrote this drivel?
     
  3. jaws1216

    jaws1216 "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Carlos Monzon:nono:
     
  4. StingerKarl

    StingerKarl Ace Degenerate

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    Whatever this internet stalker "jaws" wrote in response to my post is insignificant because he is on ingore.:lol:
     
  5. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Drivel mY ass. The OP is what a quality post looks like.
     
  6. Punk

    Punk "Twinkle Toes" McJack Staff Member

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    CS Lewis.:nono:
     
  7. StingerKarl

    StingerKarl Ace Degenerate

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  8. Haymaker

    Haymaker WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Barrera sucks, Jaws made me see the light :clap:
    I still have the sig bet
     
  9. valdosta

    valdosta Undisputed Champion

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    Take it to smacktalk. :flip:
     
  10. Registered

    Registered "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    People underrate Barrera these days because he's getting a bit advanced in age. But there was a time when Barrera was top 3 P4P.

    When Pacquiao thrashed him, people began to jump on the "Barrera is a crippled washed up overrated former champ" bandwagon. I never bought into it.

    After the Pacquiao loss, he destroyed Paulie Ayala (who he isn't much bigger than to be honest), beat Morales, and found a way to beat a younger, stronger Rocky Juarez x2. Even in his fight against Fagquez he was competitive all the way through and nearly had Fagquez out of there.

    In the end I think Pacquiao, Morales, and Barrera will be remembered as a golden age of featherweights 20 years from now. Those guys proved that little men could own the stage as well as any.
     
  11. TKO

    TKO Administrator Staff Member

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    MAB is a legend and anyone who thinks otherwise is just hating on him. His record speaks for its self.
     
  12. Arben

    Arben "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    ...says the guy who compares Juan Diaz to Henry Armstrong.
     
  13. jaws1216

    jaws1216 "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    guess that isn't working anymore:lol:
     
  14. joony

    joony "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    barrera's a great fighter, but it should be noted that he's always been a dirty fighter.

    he also failed to beat guys who whupped his ass.
     
  15. Punk

    Punk "Twinkle Toes" McJack Staff Member

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    What the hell is "ingore"?

    That's one forum feature I want to investigate further.
     
  16. Son of Payton

    Son of Payton Banned

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    Great post. :bears:

    I've always been a fan of Barrera (even though he is dirty), and also feel he's greater than Morales.

    Morales gets more accolades, IMO, because he's more of an all-action fighter whereas Barrera sometimes gets criticized for boxing smartly (i.e. Juarez II, etc.) instead of upholding the "traditional Mexican warrior" nom de guerre in every fight.
     
  17. joony

    joony "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    i disagree, morales was the greater, more CONSISTENT fighter/champion.

    he never got blown out in his prime and beat guys that destroyed barrera.
     

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