International Flavor Dominates (by Jaws)

from the time he was a cruiserweight until he was challenging Louis, his seriously bodybuilder looking frame gained almost 30lbs of muscle (steroids) and with that size he was able to continue to have success at HW.

 

Glad to see you are attempting to catch up to the normal level.
At least you know you are behind. Thats a start.

 

maybe...

Holyfield's biggest weapon was his strength, and he'd perservere and break u down eventually. I'm not saying Klitschko is Riddick Bowe, but he's got a better offense than Bowe IMO, and its a similar approach. Holyfield did great with Tyson because he matched Tyson's strength, but at the same time he struggled when up against guys with good jabs.

The only reason the Lennox fights are even debateable (and IMO Lewis clearly won both) is because Lennox doesn't throw that much and so alot of the rounds were closer than I think rounds between Klitschko and Holyfield would be.

 

30LBS ??

You are an idiot ...

Evander made the 190 weigh in and was probably 200lbs or close to it on fight night.

He weighed 202 for his first heavyweight fight and had a prime weight of around 210lbs in the heavyweight division.

 

I doubt Lewis would've went life and death against a guy like Peter.

Holyfield is light years better than Brewster and would've found a way inside to approach Klitschko's chin. Holyfield also had one of the fastest hands at heavyweight and was probably one of the most versatile heavyweights if not the best.

Wladimir is still unproven and has been KOed by bums. i'm not sure if we'll ever see the best of him since the division sucks, but judging by what i've seen, i doubt klitschko has the stamina or consistent defense to last against holyfield

i guess it remains to be seen, but i dont think klitschko will get any better. if he unifies the division in an impressive fashion, then who knows.

 

I agree Klitschko tends to have a higher work-rate, and would also say that Klitschko's style is much more like Lewis' than Bowe's.

Klitsckho establishes distance with his left and you have to work harder to get closer to him.

My take on the triumverate of Klitschko, Lewis and Bowe would be...Bowe had a good jab, but he didn't establish distance as well with it and didn't use it to set up punches from the outside nearly as much...most of his other punches were thrown from a shorter distance. When Bowe would jab from the outside, opponent's wouldn't have to worry about that straight right (or in Klitschko's case, the left hook as well) coming after it nearly as much. Bowe would sometimes throw the right, but often missed it short because of the trajectory, and he would often dive in when he threw the left hook.

Bowe's right hand wasn't as quick or as straight as either Kiltschko's or Lewis', because he looped it over the top more...Lewis could change the angles he threw it better than either, while I think Klitschko shortens the distance with it better...both Lewis and Klitschko threw much better straight rights.

Bowe fought Holyfield much more on the inside, where he could land his uppercut and left hook, and he certainly went to the body more than either Lewis or Klitschko.

Lewis and Klitschko had styles that they could pretty much fight anybody with, because they are/were bigger than the smaller heavyweights and could use their size, and they are/were quicker and have better technique than most bigger opponents.

Bowe, on the other hand, was much more suited to fighting smaller fighters because he wasn't a threat to the bigger fighters from the outside except for his jab...and even against smaller fighters, he put himself at risk for taking a lot more punishment than Lewis or Klitschko.

I think that's part of the reason, along with eating/training habits among several other, why Bowe didn't have the longevity at or near his peak the way Lewis and Klitschko have.

 

dsimon writes:

You think? Holy lost a lot of big fights Jooney. He was always game that is for sure. That would have been a great fight. You have Holly with the pure swarming and punch output and his tenacity against the technically superb Klitschko. I might have to give it to Holly also, mostly because Klitschko, unlike Bowe really can't fight close quarters and Holly would take the fight there.

 

dsimon writes:

Thats undeniably true. I still think some great fighters could not have made the transition though. For example, I don't think any version of Roy Jones, great as he was, spins heavyweight straw into gold. Guys like Foster couldn't make the transition any better when a big heavyweight was at most Foreman's size.

 

Evander made the 190 weigh in and was probably 200lbs or close to it on fight night.

He weighed 202 for his first heavyweight fight and had a prime weight of around 210lbs in the heavyweight division.<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->
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What about conditioning. A young Evander wasn't all that bad.
Wlad could possibly get worn down and Evander could start catching him when he is tired.
It's not like Evander is as slow on his feet as Peter.

 

Like he fucked up Riddick Bowe?

 

The point is that you think he would beef up yet you also contend size doesn't make a difference.

To me that's a contradiction.

 

Don't forget about today's superior technilogical advancements in exercise and nutrition, it has produced such superfighters like Oleg, Valuev, and The Cannon!

:: Retards!

 

No , not really because I have bben saying all along that if some of the older guys that are the same height were as out of shape as some of the current guys , they would be almost the same weight .
To be honest , I don't know if he would beef up. Maybe he would feel better with no extra fat on him.
I guess guys like Brewster feel more comfortable with a layer of fat.

 

Next time someone under 220 is considered the best HW in the world, call me because you'll have an argument..

 

So you really think Walcott at 196 pounds could contend with a 240 lb, albeit soft, Sam Peter?

This debate has raged long enough so I guess we'll just have to agree that I'm right and move on..

Deal?

 

I don't know ... Peter is allot slower and in not even half the fighter technically. Though if he landed a nice shot , he could end it but that is his only single advantage going into this fight.

What about a fat 230lb Lamon Brewster that could afford to lose 20/25lbs Vs a 6'2 - 205lb Joe Louis ?
I mean does Lamon's extra fat really make him a bigger man where it can tip the scales into his favor ?

 

Let me be clear about something..

I like the 245 pound solid athletes like Lewis and Wlad who utilize superior reach and leverage to beat Louis, but I wouldn't take guys like Brewster over Joe..

Marciano, Walcott, Charles, and Dempsey weren't Joe Louis..

 

I agree. If Louis Vs Wlad could really happen , I would pick Wlad but would not count Louis out ... Some reasoning behind that is because fighters like a 225lb Sanders had about 20 pounds of fat on him when he KO'd Wlad. Louis was a solid 205lb fighter. If Sanders could , Louis might be able to as well.
The other heavies you mentioned , I would pick them over some current choice opposition.

 

Lewis was a good fighter but Wlad is there because there's something like 10 heavyweight champions and the division blows today. Wlad is certainly nothing to write home about and you'll agree the FOURTH time he is sent sprawling across the canvas if any sort of fighter comes along. It wouldn't surprise me if Hopkins could take one of the heavyweight titles the division is so bad. An out of shape retired GOLFER KO'ED what your trying to tell me is the best heavyweight of today? :: :: ::

 

I'm praying for someone to KO Wlad as soon as possible. as repellent as Rahman is i'd be rooting for him should the shit-fight of the year actually take place.

 

Is there a better one right now?

If so, I'll listen to the reasoning..

 

I deem em all even trplsec, the title can change hands ANY time he fights someone with a pulse. If you want to argue that Lewis was too big and skilled for Joe Louis, fine, I have no problem with that but Wlad? :: I think a 218lb prime Tyson MOWS Wlad in ONE round, Louis would get him within 6. I understand athletes today are all roided out and there will probably never be a dominant fighter under 210lbs in the heavyweight division again but until SKILLED big 6'7 250lb DOMINANT heavys become the norm I"m not sold. PLease note the Keywords there, SKILLED and DOMINANT! I mean didn't we just have a 221lb heavyweight beat up a 273lb roid freak?

 

dsimon writes:

Point is that Holly bulked up a bit and probably had some help from mothers little helper (an expression before your time::). I think the major factor was that Holly was strong enough to handle guys at that weight. I think he needed to be north of 200 pounds to do that but when he was he could hang with the big boys.

What he accomplished is incredible but he did have to "bulk up" a bit CYC.:dunno: Evander was a natural cruiserweight.

 

dsimon writes:

That is what made Holly so damn dangerous IMO. He wasn't a big puncher, he wasn't really a counter puncher, nor really a great inside fighter... the way he beat guys was to overwhelm them with activity. To smother them and to hit them when they got tired out. He was a swarmer and a good combo puncher.

 

dsimon writes:

You act like that is implausible. I would pick Walcott in that battle without a doubt. Walcott was a great technician. If he was not as skilled as Toney he was nearly and Toney was not decimated by Peter... and won the first fight with Peter despite the judging. There is precedent under the circumstances to suggest that Walcott could handle Peter.

I think Peter is getting better though and if he gets a bit more experience he may turn out to surpass Walcott.

 

Yeah but his bulk is exaggerated. He made the 190 weigh in. That probably puts him somewhere around 200lbs on fight night for a Cruiser weight fight.
His prime weight at Heavyweight was around 210.
So what did he really bulk up , 10 / 12lbs ?
Thats not nearly as much as people say...

Just like Roy Jones . Roy was probably around 183 on fight night for a Lt. Heavy fight so when he weighed in fully hydrated in the 190's at Heavyweight , he didn't gain 25lbs of muscle. He gained 10 or 12lbs ..

 

so he wasn't a prime HW in the Bowe fight that he won, either of the tyson fights, or by the time he fought lennox.

When exactly was his HW prime?

 

He was well into his mid 30's ...

If you want to tell me that Holy gained weight when he was older , fine.
I can also tell you that Joe Louis fought at 218lbs and Joe Frazier fought at 225 in their 30's.

Regardless , what weight was he around in those fights - 215 / 218 ?
Thats still only around HALF of the 30lbs of muscle you are trying to say he gained.
Even now at his advanced age , when he is in decent shape he still only weighs 216 like he just weighed in I think his fight before last.
You happen to pick his highest weight for the Bowe series. Lets not forget he only weighed 205 the first time he fought Bowe.

After he dehydrated himself to make 190 at Cruiser , what do you think he weighed on fight night ?

 

if he was "dehydratng himself" then explain how his official weight for the first Qawi fight was 4 lbs under the limit?

Now answer my question again, when was his HW prime and how much was he weighing at that time?