Dsimon writes: To anyone who does not believe that Floyd as the ultimate ignoramous cannot bring the best out in people check out this link http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_ylt=Ah8bPGxoPRMWw4_aOHQZkZKUxLYF?slug=ki-081107arumking&prov=yhoo&type=lgns I am willing to believe, at the most naive fucker on this board, that maybe our villians have mellowed through the years... Arum and King specifically might become wise elder statesmen yet....
King defends Arum because King believes Mayweather is wrong and because defending Arum benefits King. King is too smart to cut off his own nose to spite Arum and he's too genuine (for lack of a better word) to go turncoat on the sport, unlike Cosell or Gary Shaw is now.
dsimon writes: Yeah I am sure self interest played a part in it. Its still one of them things where who would have thought? ::
This is one of those debates that seemed to have good points on both sides, even though the ones speaking (Mayweather Jr, King, and Arum) are all usually viewed in a negative light. It's a good point that a fighter who is promoting his own fight is also giving money to his opponent and the judges...but how is that different than a person DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE FIGHTER (his promoter) paying that same money make it more ethical? It provides distance between the fighter and those other people, but he's still directly benefiting from the efforts of someone who is supposed to be working for his best interests. I think it's a matter of preference. For those fighters who don't have an interest in the business side of things, a separate promoter and/or manager may be a good thing. For those willing to control their own destiny in every sense of the word, then a boxer being his own show can be done as well.
mayweather is an idiot. and king, as a promoter, simply recognizes that he has to defend he profession and the value he (and other promoters) add.
dsimon writes: I wish this event would have happened when I taught professional ethics because it is a perfect example of how pursuing one's self interest can potentially raise an ethical dilema. We accept that a lawyer's interest is their client. Until we have a system where a lawyer is interested in the truth and not protecting their client legal ethics are fairly simple. In medical ethics the doctor's interest has to be protecting life at all times which creates a dilemna if a doctor has to decide quality of life issues. In Psychology most issues are related to confidentiality and when somebody divulges info that could harm somoene in the future.... Now in promoting boxing the question is ethically speaking what is the promoter's interest in the fight? It is not wholly the fighter's interests because a promoter wants to make money and use the fighter to serve their interests in other ways. When a fighter promotes their own fights it changes this relationship... drastically because his/her self interest is wholly aligned with every other aspect of the fight. This could be an interesting development 1) Where as before we had issues of special interests (the fans, the prompters cut as a %, contracts for further fights, etc) now we would have the fighter's interests. Do they align with the fans interests? Do they create an incentive to manipulate refs and other rules? Do they create a monopoly and exclude other fighters? 2) Does a fighter's self promotion create an unlevel playing field? If a fighter can't promote him/herself what bargaining power do they have against a fighter who can promote the boute? 3) Does a fighter promoting him/herself create a situation where the interests of the fans are comprimised? For example, De la Hoya and Mayweather can decide to simply go through a glorified sparring match and set the rules, refs and conditions to support that type of event. I think it would be naive to assume that market dynamics would overcome all of these problems. If fighters promote themselves their has to be an agency for fans of some sort or another.
Mayweather was absolutely right in what he said about Erik Morales. How do you keep jumping from weight class to weight class immediatley getting title shots when you're coming off getting your ass kicked at the lower weight? That's nothing more than a lot of that political bullshit that is running boxing today. Whatever happened to earning it? And I don't necessarily say by beating some highly ranked fighter at that higher weight(though it would be nice) but rather at least looking impressive at the lower weight and driving the fight.
Did he cry, when he said it? Obviously he´s jealous, because he lived in Morales´shadow for ten years at Top Rank. :: ::
dsimon writes: Especially considering that Morales was considered shot because of the Pacman fight. There were, accordingly, real questions about Morales fitness. Mayweather also has a point about the amount of money that changes hands. Sure everybody can poo poo it but I think if any of us were a fighter and we could hold on to a substantial amount of kale we would think twice about promotional expenses. On the other hand Hatton being promoted with his family having a lot of influence is also a big mistake and Audley Harris is another example of using the cheaper promoters not being the best idea. Somewhere there is a middle way! ::
was there any point in time in the last ten years where morales made more money in a fight than mayweather?
Was there ever a point where Mayweather was more respected and loved than Morales? :dunno: And I have no idea what kind of slave wages Floyd received at 130/135, but I´m sure it made him cry. ::
Top Rank may have had more love for Morales, but he certainly wasn't the better-known fighter. I always thought T/R did a horrible job with Morales' career. Way too many of his fights were off-TV or on PPV undercards, or even obscure independent PPVs that he headlined. There was one point in his career where in the span of 3 years, he only appeared once on HBO, the rest coming on PPV. As a matter of fact, he's only been on regular HBO (excluding week-later HBO ppv replays) 8 times in his career (Zaragoza, J. Jones, McCullough, Barrera I, Kelley, Espadas I, Chavez, Raheem). The rest came on PPV or off-TV. Not exactly the best way to build a star.
Bigger stars don´t necessarily mean bigger paychecks for a promoter. There is no way Morales "loses" to Diaz, if Arum thought he still had something left. I don´t know what Morales/Pacquiao/Barrera earned in their fights, but they should have never gotten less than a Roy Jones, but HBO boxing is a programme, that never relied on cold hard numbers.
not sure what you mean by that part. But Roy was the most featured HBO fighter in the network's history, if I'm not mistaken. Plus, the tandem you mentioned never headlined a PPV with more than 400,000 buys. Jones did so twice, in addition to filling up arenas, first in the Gulf Coast then eventually throughout the country (at least until 2005). Plus, I never suggested that bigger stars = bigger paychecks. I'm making the argument that Top Rank did a poor job of turning Morales into a star, because someone of his talent should've had way more mainstream appeal than his career enjoyed.
I mean Roy was so featured, protected and overpaid by HBO, he should have done much better numbers "for them". Roy vs. Tarver did more than 400k twice? We never get a feeling how big Morales or Barrera were in Mexico. They were good enough to sell over 15000 tickets in Vegas, something a lot of other stars could never do, admittly Roy could, but at least Morales didn´t have to fight in Biloxi on a 25k PPV at the tail end of his career. ld:
This 25K PPV number isn't exactly fair because the biggest satellite provider, directv, didn't carry the show. I know it would have been 25,001, if it had.
Tarver-Roy III did over 400,000, and Roy-Ruiz did just over 600,000. Tarver without Roy isn't a big draw. I mean, he WON the 3rd fight w/ Jones, yet his bout w/ Hopkins drew almost 100,000 less. Say what you want about Roy fighting on obscure PPVs in the Gulf Coast - his last fight drew a larger crowd than Diaz-Morales. And until the numbers come in for the Diaz-Morales PPV, I wouldn't laugh at the 25,000 total - esp, since as others noted, Roy's PPV was only available on a limited number of satellite/cable providers - DirecTV not being one of them. Diaz-Morales was a Top Rank PPV, but still one with HBO's backing/marketing (though nowhere near as aggressive as their normal PPVs).
Don´t ya think there is a reason nobody backed Roy? :dunno: Morales did 175k against Hernandez or Chavez, I doubt it will be under 100k.
but his fights vs. Ayala, Barrera II & III, Pac I, II, & III were televised on HBO a week later. even when he was on the undercard, it was on Jones-Gonzalez and Oscar-Campas. wasn't he also on few other oscar undercards?
