Most intelligent fighters of all time!

In the ring, who's the most intelligent fighters of all time? Guys who could adjust, antisipate opponents moves, set guys up, ect. Best all time thinkers.

A few, in no order:

Leonard
Ali
Holmes
Arguello
Monzon
PBF
Hopkins
RJ
Finito
Whitaker
Chavez
Duran
McCallum

Who else

 

Roy. He knew his limitations. Thats why he never thought DM

 

Napoles
Rodriguez
Lennox

 

Personally I don't think Roy. Roy was just insanely fast, and insanely talented and athletic. A phenom for sure, but not much of a thinker in the ring. More just athletic instinct.

Bernard is a thinker for sure, as are Duran and Leonard, Arguello, Monzon and Floyd.

For example, Floyd is a fair bit less talented IMO than Roy, but makes up for it by being a great thinker and strategist in the ring.

 

anybody who brings out a rap track like that can't be much of a thinker...

so i think Floyd lives off fighter's instinct alone, too

 

Royness, I think this thread is purely IN the ring thinking, fight thinking ::

Outside the ring, no, Floyd clearly isn't much of a thinker.

 

Shirt i think i got the idea... i'm just saying when u can't think outside, what makes u think he could do it inside.

Insinct and following a game plan... that's it. :tease:

 

Toney

 

Leonard doesnt belong at the top there on account of the first Duran fight....was alledgedly lured into a brawl and at no point tried to adjust

and neither does Jones cos of the first Griffin fight...had no answer for Griffin except to foul out of frustration
________
COACH PURSES

 

dsimon writes:

Agreed 100%

 

dsimon writes:

Toney for sure. Mayweather. Michael Moore, at lightheavy at least. :: Holmes fought smart... He learned Ali but used lateral movement in a way that was particular to him. I am keeping to the modern guys btw. Marquez is another one. Hopkins. There are many more. Miguel Cotto might be heading that way, he is deceptively intelligent in how he sets up for his body assaults and is extremely accurate and strategic in his execution.

 

Agreed.

Great ones have been mentioned...Leonard, Arguello, McCallum, Floyd, Whitaker, Hops, Finito and Napoles!.....

Not mentioned yet that I would definitely add:

Archie Moore

Ezzard Charles

Marco Antonio Barrera

Miguel Canto

Eder Jofre

Carlos Ortiz

Salvador Sanchez

Azumah Nelson


Peace.

 

WHERE IS ALI?:flip:

 

Hopkins, PBF, Whitaker for sure NEAR THE TOP!

I would add Barrera, Juan Manuel Marquez, Azumah Nelson

 

Why don't you READ the thread? :doh: :tease: Marquez is a good add, though I think he's been mentioned.

As for Ali....what's so intelligent about his jab-jab-run-jab-right-run-clinch routine? He did it every single time; wash, rinse, repeat.


















:crafty: ::

 

That he won almost every time....

What´s not so intellgent about it??

That he cannot remember that he won....

 

Obviously, REED DISagrees w/the Notion that Roy Jones WASN'T Amongst the Most "Intelligent" Fighters Ever...

Toooooooo OFTEN,Roy's PHYSICAL Gifts R Almost Held AGAINST him,as if ALL he had was Superior SPEED...

Watch the ENTIRETY of the RE w/Griffin...The KILL Shot was a Left HookerCut...

Probably 30-50 Seconds PRIOR to that Punch,Roy FEINTED the SAME EXACT Shot...He GUAGED Griffin's REACTION,which was to Pull his OWN Head BACK & Try to BLOCK the Shot w/his Arms...

After Witnessing this, Roy Adjusted THE WAY he Fired that Left & Caught Griffin FLUSH,KO'ing him...Griffin TRIED to Block the Shot w/his Arms AND Pulled his Own Head Back,but STILL Got NAILED...

The James Toney Fight is when Roy Fell IN LOVE w/TOTALLY DISREGARDING the Left Jab,LEADING w/Hooks...Roy KNEW that Toney HIMSELF was a COUNTERpuncher & COUNTERED Left Jabs VERY Well...So Roy Hardly EVER Threw a Jab...He KNEW this AHEAD of Time & EXECUTED his Plan PERFECTLY,Despite Being the UNDERDOG N the Bout...

He BEAT Toney w/his Lead RIGHTS, Lead LEFT HOOKS & Gained the Confidence N his OWN Speed to CONTINUE Doing this for the BULK of his Career...But it's NOT like Roy ALWAYS Led w/Power Shots...
:nono:

Or the Tony Thornton Fight,where Roy PAWS w/his Jab to Thornton's Head,then Body....Head,then Body...Over & Over...The INSTANT Roy Got Thornton ACCUSTOMED to this Particular Rhythm,Roy FEINTED To Thornton's BODY,Tony REACTED to the Feint & Roy DROPPED him w/a HOOK to the HEAD...

OR,During the Reggie Johnson or Antoine Byrd Bouts...Roy PAUSES in Place,w/his Left Arm Extended ABNORMALLY...The MOMENT Reggie & Antoine ENGAGE,Roy CLOCKS them w/a CHOPPING Overhand Left & Eventually DROPS them...

It's 1 Thing to B QUICK...It's ANOTHER to BAIT a Guy INTO a Shot,THEN Catch him...

Roy was a QUICK Guy who BAITED ALOT of his Foes INTO Shots...That's "Intellect"...


REED

 

Even Larry Merchant(one of Roy's biggest critics) said sveral times that Jones was one of the smartest fighters he's seen. He said that in the Julio Gonzalez fight, and during the Ruiz fight.

 

REED - he's certainly not DUMB in the ring, but he really did rely more on athletic ability and instinct. Timing and anticipation can still be part of instinct.

Put it this way, now his physical gifts have eroded, he would perform a lot better and if he was that much of an intelligent fighter in the ring.

For example hopkins, he doesn't have the same speed and agility and athleticism he had when he was 30 (still an amazing amount considering his age) yet it's his ring intelligence that enables him to still be a formidable fighter.

And it's not just speed either, Roy was just an extreme athlete, speed was simply the most noticeable aspect partly because he is a fairly big guy, and that kind of speed is almost never seen in middleweights and above.

 

What about Hagler, Marlon Starling, Michael Spinks,Ricardo Lopez.......

 

we'll see who's more of a thinker "outside the ring" when mayweather eclipses jones' career earnings in his next fight.

 

Lets see who still has their "career earnings" in the bank ten years from now.....:crafty:

 

Leonard said he fought that way on purpose during the first fight. He wanted to answer the critics who questioned his toughness. He later said that was a mistake although he did get respect from going toe to toe with Duran.

We all saw what happened in the rematch anyways.

 

::....

 

I definitely see what REED is saying....Jones Jr. was a master at setting traps and walking guys into punches...

And his hand-eye coordination and reflexes were ridiculous in the sense that he could see an opening and take advantage of it immediately.

But I think your assessment is fair - he relied on his pure speed and reflexes and athleticism to pull off what he did repeatedly. It was almost instinctual/natural.

That being said - if I had that kind of speed/reflexes/athleticism, I'd rely on it just as much, as would we all.

Peace.

 

Jesus,
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned 2nd career George Foreman.
He was ALOT smarter than he seemed but you have to pay close attention to see the little things.
The guy in his 40's was a brilliant fighter

 

Yep. He said it again in the Ruiz fight. I believe the quote was, "We've all celebrated Jones for his athletic skills, he's also one of the most intelligent fighters in the ring. He's really good at finding the distance where he can hit you but you can't hit him."

 

Gene Tunney: Taking 13, cos you know its available to you, is damn smart.

Corbett: Pioneered the modern technique.

Choynski: See Corbett.


Ali {just fought stupid a lot to please himself and the crowd- Ray Leonard was a bit like this too}

 

This is all well and good, up until the point where I see the name "Jones" and the word "Intelligence" juxtaposed against names like "Griffen" and "Antoine Byrd"

An intelligent fighter would NEVER have been caught by Tarvers hook. Ever.

Bernard Hopkins: now thats an intelligent, albeit dirty, fighter. He never fell for any of Tarvers shit. Remember: intelligence involves avoiding the incoming, not just setting it up.

Larry Holmes: another guy who could defuse a bomb.


Of course, a chin comes in handy.:laughing: