Teofilo Stevensson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uBF-PFAf8M

discuss

 

Adding the -sson ending to his name still doesn´t make him Scandinavian. :nono: :nono:

 

Um... people that are Cuban?

 

::

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOB7_BFqUeU

here is a better video. I think his right cross is among the best ever for a big man, only Wlad does it better

 

But he beat all Germans like a true Scandinavian

 

dsimon writes:

IMO Teofilo Stevensson was quite simply the best heavy ever, and one of the best fighters ever.... period. I honestly think if he had fought pro he would have been unstoppable. Had it all, technical ability on a level with Mayweather, athletic ability like Jones, the feel for the game that comes to guys like Ali... No weakness. The speed of a lightweight he could not really be hit to speak of. I loved Ali but Stevenson was better, a lot better. He was dominant and taught Savon the ropes so to speak.

The only guy I think was comprable was Ray Robinson.

I know people will now proceed to eat my ass but Stevenson dominated international competition in a way that is comprable to if Tyson had never hit a bump. And while there is a difference one can argue that certain features make each sport (Olympic versus professional boxing) equally difficult.

But it is a fuck all argument to simply say that because guys went longer in the pros and had no headgear it is harder.... Try hitting accurately with all punches with virtually no peripheral vision. Try KNOCKING people out in 3 rounds who are wearing headgear. I think Stevenson would have made every heavyweight his bitch if he had been a pro. Ali was lucky that one never came off.

 

dsimon writes:

Vlad does not have half a right cross as Stevenson dude. And Stevenson could fight going back and inside.

Vlad might have as good a left jab, but while he snaps it and hopes it ends the conflict, Stevenson's right was in such a straight line from that jab that some guys thought the jab had Ko'ed them. His straight right was probably faster than Mayweather's and maybe as fast as Judah's.... You can see it from the videos.

 

Talk about class. He knocks you the fuck out and then help you walk to your stool.

 

Igor Vivstotsky:bears:

 

Wlad is not in Teo's class as a fighter.
Can you folks imagine a fight between 1968 Gold Medalist Foreman and 1972 Gold Medalist Stevenson?
There are three fighters I consider the greatest amateur heavyweights ever: Foreman, Stevenson, and Savon.
As great as Teo was, Igor Vsotsky had his number, which show you that styles make fights.
Duane Bobick also beat him at a time when Bobick was the world's best amateur, but where it really counted in the Olympics-Teo pulverized him and proved he was the best.
Teo I think reached his peak in 76-79.
Too bad we never saw Teo vs. Ali, but Teo refused to leave Cuba.
I don't think 15 rounds would have been a problem for him as he was so well conditioned and so very relaxed in there as well.

 

dsimonn writes:

:: ::

 

Well, but to be fair....Stevenson fought basically all of his career in an Ammy era when there was no headgear.

Nevertheless...your points are very valid.

An important thing to keep in mind regarding Stevenson is his freakishly long reach - even for his 6'5" height - and how he towered over opponents and quite frankly, intimidated them. He used his height and reach to perfection, often throwing his jab from the elbow so as to not have to bring it back, thus more effectively controlling distance.

In many of his fights the opponent STARTS the fight already circling away or backpedaling.

Stevenson is an Ammy great, no doubt.

But having to box over 8, 10, and 12 (15) rounds can change alot of things, and quickly.

And - Vivstotsky knocked him out brutally in their first meeting - a full 10-count, I believe. In the rematch he was intimidated and basically fought to survive until getting TKO'd again.

Makes you wonder what would have happened in the Pros.

Teo was awesome....but saying he would have absolutely dominated the Pros - especially in that golden era he would have competed in - is way too big of a jump.

Peace.

 

stevenson wouldve sliced up that russian bleeder in the pro ranks

 

He had his chance....twice. With no head gear.

 

Have you ever seen Roberto Balado? Many agree that he was the best supeheavyweight since the division was invented

 

Wlad had about the same reach as Stevensson, but he was 20+ pounds the heavier guy which probably means he hits harder, and to my eye it seems that hsi right cross is a shade faster than Stevensson's. Both have great accuracy

 

Overrated, great amateur, but of course so was Howard Davis. He would nothave matched favorably with any top HW because the Amateur game is so much different than the pro.

Can u imagine if Mike Tyson had fought an extensive amateur career with no headgear, 3 rounders into his physical prime.

Stevenson gets credit for "never was there" syndrome. Its like people who swear Len Bias was the second coming, it never happened, for whatever reason.

 

dsimon writes:

I know my analysis is exxagerated but I do feel that way. Basically One has to assume Stevenson would train properly for the pros. I see him as another Roy Jones but with technical polish that even Jones and Ali didn't have... Frankly when he punches he looks like Ray Robinson to me.

That reach is what makes him so formidable BTW. He had a Klitschko like physique in that, yeah he was 20 pounds lighter but the speed and reach!! He was a lot faster and better. Klitschko does not get the power on his punches, though he often gets hell a exstension on his jab. Look at Foreman at that time in the pros and look at Stevenson... two big rangy guys. I never saw foreman in the ammies but at least on tape, the difference is scary. Foreman must punch literally half as fast if that. Klitschko pulls back on his punches to keep his balance compared to Stevenson and Klitschko can't do half of what Stevenson could do in the ring.

I also know tape is not the whole story but I can't see how this guy could be nuetralized! He could fight inside, his uppercut is incredible if somoene got in that far. His punches were so straight I bet they could make a Platonic triangle! I mean that speed and getting there so fast because of that straightness. I just can't see him not pulling a Tyson in terms of dominance because on top of everything else he had mad power (like Savon).

I try to imagine Frazier getting in on this guy with his hook... I can't see it:: I try to imagine Foreman touching him with a punch, I can't see it. I try to imagine Ali setting him up and all I see is that straight right and jab. And rope a dope? with Stevenson's uppercut? :dunno:

I know I am biased though. ::

And finally yeah he lost a few times. Gene Fullmer and La Motto, two guys who could probably be beat by more than a few average fighters gave Ray Robinson a hard time.

 

I ain't even going to try to explain that one.

 

Watching those videos I don't see what you're all so impressed by. Especially the first video posted, that guy would have went down from a stiff breeze.

 

Thats EXACTLY what Kid Gavilan said about both Stevenson and Savon. He regarded them as lazy and protected. Of course, they lived in Cuba, whilst Castro had appropriated Gavilans sugar farm and exiled him for good.

 

dsimon writes:

That will always be a legitimate grippe.

 

That would be a BIG assumption, bro. That's just it: assuming he would be just as dominant in the Pros as he would in the Ammys simply because he "looked fresh" for three rounds and was fighting other Ams...that's too big of a leap.

Guys that look absolutely spectacular for 3 rounds....can look ENTIRELY different when they have to fight for 10 and 12, no matter how hard they train.

See Judah, Witter, Tyson, Ricardo Williams, Bojado, Breland, and the list goes on.

It's just a whole 'nother game.

And no, Stevenson does not look like Robinson....SRR was much more varied in his punch repertoire and not quite as predictable.

That's not to say Stevenson didn't look great; I absolutely love his jab, straight and overhand right and those short uppercuts.

And again...how he reacted to being stopped by Vivstotsky in the rematch - basically backing up and fighting to survive until he was "caught" again...that's a BIG warning sign in terms of what his mentality and reaction would be to the Pros in terms of adversity or when given his first loss or KO or even just when hurt badly.

BTW - Mark Breland looked absolutely unstoppable in the Ams - very similar to Stevenson. So did Forrest. Casamayor - 380-30 record. Etc.

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion - and I can appreciate what you see since I see alot of it too.

But he would have been fighting in one of the deepest HWT eras ever...and against some all-time greats.

I don't think he would have pulled a "mid-80's Tyson".

Peace.

 

The guy's name was Vysotsky :warning: :warning:
As to the topic at hand.....I LMAO each time anyone talks about hypotetical chances of these amateur bums in real boxing.
Laslo Papp is considered to be the greatest amateur ever, yet the guy fought for 8 years as professional and didn't have balls to fight even one (!!!) decent pro fighter.
If he never fought professionaly, there would be some idiots right now on this board, claiming that if Papp WOULD'VE fought profesionally, he'd destroy everyone.
Well, guess what? Thankfully, he did fight professionaly for 8 years and the only thing he dominated were some euro bums. The guy absolutely refused to even step in the ring with real best pros.
Same applies to this Stevenson bum. The only reason we have this "He WOULDA slaughter everyone" discussion, is because he never stepped into the REAL ring. If he ever did, he would've had a Papp-like career: he'd become a bum-beater extraordinaire without ever facing the best pros.

 

dsimon writes:

How about all the pros he beat at the olympic level?:dunno: Most olympians have at least decent professional careers, a lot go on to greatness.

There are some indications that olympic success shows skills in the square circle. Incidently did your ammie guy have an outstanding olympic career?opcorn:

Yes there are differences and Donnie's points are well taken, but at some level a punch is a punch my friend.

 

While I wont agree he is the best ever, I do think he was great and you bring up a good point brother Dsimon,

I myself.... could NEVER be KO'd wearing headgear.. I watch tough man and I'm like... these guys getting KO'd are wearing big ass headgear and the fighters are wearing pillow gloves.. the fact that he KO'd people with headgear on is impressive

 

dsimon writes:

It was definitely hyperbole for me to say the best ever.

Dude was dominant and looked flawless.... He always had full extension on his punches. You look at Vlad and he looks so stiff compared. But Yeah there are big differences in how one looks based on the comp. One thing is for sure though Stevenson could beat Dimapimpel's ass. :: ::

But seriously I have a hard time imagining how any heavy I have seen gets by Stevenson's speed and reach. Even Ali. When you look at Foreman who was a terror and see him punching he looks so inferior and he was built like Stevenson. Looks are decieving of course, but dude was 6 five like Foreman was, about the same weight and technically so much better. Foreman was a lot meaner though.

 

I think he could have been a great pro..

While I'd pick a prime Ali to beat him (but I'd pick prime Ali to beat about anyone)

To say WLAD is on the level as him is absurd...