Roy Jones Vs Jack Dempsey at 175

OK , we all know Dempsey could have made the 175lb weigh-in.
Dempsey admits his listed weight is a little more then what he actually used to weigh.
He weighed an exaggerated 185/187 in some fights fully hydrated.
He could have dehydrated 10 or less pounds to make a 175 weigh in.
Roy probably weighed around 183/185 on fight night.

Who wins ? Does Dempsey break Jones down with his relentless attack ?

 

Jones wins very easily and in progress makes Dempsey look just as old-fashioned as he was. Heck, I am not sure if Dempsey even hit harder than Jones who definately had more muscle than Dempsey. Mismatch

 

agREED

 

:laughing: :laughing: Are you insane ?? Mismatch - OMFG , that has to be one of the most idiotic statements yet ...

I say Jones looks like a bitch up against the ropes and can't get away from Dempsey's FAST ring cutting abilities.

 

Why make a thread if you have no desire to hear other thoughts? :dunno:

 

Agreed ? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

So you agree its a mismatch ?

I put this fight up for debate , not for retarded comments that make ZERO fuckin sense in the real world of boxing.

Have you guys even seen Dempsey fight ?

 

Bro , those aren't thoughts. Those were just outright retarded comments.
Regardless who you think wins , describing this fight like some sort of mismatch and Jones would blow Dempsey out and stop him is just plain old STUPID. Thats not an opinion or thought , that is just ill informed retardation.

 

What fights have either of you seen Dempsey in ?

 

So we are allowed to "debate" as long as we agree with you?

I have seen Dempsey's fights against Carpentier (as much as it has been shown), Willard, Firpo and clips of him vs. Tunney. He was the SMALLER guy compared to Jones, he had clearly more body fat. And if you look his fighting with unbiased glasses on, you SHOULD see that his techniques are very out-dated. He loops with his punches, he has little knowledge of correct balance and movement and he bumps into his opponents shots face first. That would be a suidice against Jones who is so much quicker and sharper it is ridiculous

 

No , you don't have to agree. Thats the point of debate.
However your first post was just flat out bullshit crap.

Loop his punches ? Off balance ?

Bro you have watched the Willard fight.
Dempsey was fighting like that because he knew Willard was hurt bad and was throwing much more wild to get him out of there.
Not to mention Willard was so tall and retreating as well.

BTW , I disagree that Demsey was smaller then Roy.
He didn't have MUCH more body fat on him. Maybe when he was older.

 

I gave you the three fights I have seen and in all of them he fights practically the same way. Against Carpentier he simply walks over a guy he knows is much weaker than him and perhaps that is the reason he doesn't feel the need to protect himself (he was badly rocked there too). I haven't seen his fights against Brennan and Gibbons for example but for what I have read he didn't actually dominate either, and both were small and quick guys

 

It's a skill level thing. I don't think Joe Louis would have any chance against nearly ANY heavyweight today.

In fact, a better thread would be if Jones would beat Joe Louis. If they fought with 8 oz gloves, Joe beats Jones. if they fought in a big ring with 10 oz gloves, Jones wins a decision.

And yes I have seen a few of Dempsey's fights and there were absolutely no fighters which would prepare him for the speed, power and footwork of Jones.

"However"

Pressure fighters/sluggers (like Dempsey) are the same today as they were then.

 

At least you are debating now.

Check this clip. Dempsey could cut the ring. Jones has problems when he doesn't have the room. He goes to the ropes.
Dempsey was quick on his feet and not some slow outdated scrub like you are making him out to be. Dempsey also did not loop his punches any where close to the description you are giving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmaPxa-eZss

 

What is all this nonsense about "body fat" and being "muscled"? ::

Yes, Dempsey did sometimes loop his punches - but he had very quick hands, and most of the bouts on film reveal that - especially the Gibbons, Brennan and Willard fights.

Vs. Carpentier, he was basically walking him down to land his big shots.

But it's a mistake to think that he was a plodding, looping puncher.

Dempsey was actually a very good and punishing short puncher - he did NOT always loop his shots. He usually did that when he was trying to put a guy away - or felt he could afford to just wing away. But his hooks are short and compact and his body shots quite straight - as was his overhand right. His counters were very precise and fast.

His shots were QUICK and chopping.

The danger with Dempsey was how fast he was to pull the trigger, especially countering. He had great reflexes. He was in many ways an offensive counterpuncher.

And when he wanted to, he presented quite a bit of head movement and waist movement and would tuck in his chin and even use his shoulder. Check out his movement vs. Gibbons.

I'm not implying he was a defensive genius - just saying you have to look at as many fights of his as possible and that he could be more crafty than normally given credit for. And his feet were quite fast - he basically chased down every quicker, nimbler, faster fighter he fought.

He would be the bigger man in the ring vs. Jones Jr. at 175 - taller and slightly heavier.

I don't think this is a mismatch of epic proportions at all, though I'd agree Jones Jr. wins due to his speed and evasiveness.

Peace.

 

Those are things that you have to consider when seeing who is actually the bigger fighter. It is differnt to be 200 lbs muscled and 20 lbs fat don't you think?

 

So was Evander bigger than Bowe because he was more muscled and had less fat?

::

C'mon, bro...Dempsey is taller, and was quite chiseled himself...and spent his career at a slightly heavier weight fighting heavier guys.

He had very little body fat in his prime...and even if he did, so what?

Peace.

 

You understand better than that, bro. Bowe was considerably bigger than Holyfield. Jones, when he stepped in the ring, weighed as much as Dempsey and had more muscle.

Oh, nothing. Butterbean's physique is just as good as Holyfield's. Got it.

 

Have you really seen footage of Dempsey? You sure?

You are talking about very small degrees, Ugo. Both men were/are pretty chiseled with little body fat.

Did RJJ's body look MORE chiseled? Ok, sure - what is the big takeaway on how that affects performance or their size comparison in the ring?

They are the same "natural" size/weight at LHWT. Dempsey would be taller. Both men would be in great shape and muscled.

End of story.

The Holyfield/Bowe hyperbole was just to make the point.

RJJ would NOT look bigger than Dempsey. And Jack's body was not the Marciano type.

But even if he were - what of it? I don't think Duran, Moore, De La Hoya or Monzon would agree that this is such a big deal, eh?

I dunno....I'm not going to belabor this; I just struggle to understand how this point supports anything related to RJJ-Dempsey...especially when some of it is a bit erroneous.

Peace.

 

How do you figure Jones had more muscle then Dempsey ?
Dempsey was 6'0 or 6'1 ..

Here is Dempsey weighing in the low 180's.
He looks pretty ripped to me.

 

i love this site

i'm a roy fan but I say Roy get's KO'd

 

Personally, I am a huge Dempsey fan but I think he is exactly the kind of fighter that a prime Jones could make look silly.

Forget the body fat and size debate, the real issue is style. Regardless of how you slice it, Dempsey was a plodding, forward motion fighter with little regard for balance or footwork.

With a prime RJJ's timing and hand speed, he would easily have frustrated Dempsey into swinging wildly with big shots (as Tunney did). Jones could then counter an off balance Dempsey all night long.

And make no mistake that a prime RJJ had the ability to hurt Dempsey especially with a plodding Dempsey's chin way out over his feet.

 

Plodding forward ? :doh: Little regard for foot work ?:doh:
Are confusing him with maybe Marciano ?
Bro , this just shows how little you even know of Dempsey.
The only time Dempsey Plodded foward was when he was intent on a KO or to really try and hurt his opponent. The Same can be said about Oscar Delahoya and other fighters as well.

Check this clip. I know its short but it shows various styles of Dempsey.
He was not a Plodder.
As far as Tunney , that was the very end of his career and Tunney was KTFO and given way over a 10 count to get back to his feet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmaPxa-eZss

 

I hate to say it, but his footwork is worse than your average novice with 3 months gym time. Genuinely atrocious.

 

:doh: :: :notallthere:

 

Roy doesn't lose a second.

 

DEMPSEY KO1

Roid groupies are retarded to think roid wins

 

Like he didn't Vs Johnson ? ::

 

some of you have good points and it does make me further consider.. .

I mean, I think a lot of the old guys would be made fools of by guys like Roy..

But.. Dempsey, I think is underrated as a mover and what not.. Mike Tyson was a big fan of Dempsey.. he said he had very good quick head movement like Mike used too and moved quickly and had good short shots..

I could see it going either way..

Would Roy just embarass him and put on a clinic... making him look foolish?

Or Dempsey is just too "hard" of an old time guy with underrated skills that would not just "fold" from Roy's speed but would over power Roy and hurt him?

I'm not sure..

 

plus, dempsey had courage. much more than guys like ruiz, hall or harmon.

johnson had courage. see where it got him.

don't under-estimate the courage factor. dempsey was a hobo bad-ass.

 

Courage doesn't stop a guy from getting frustrated when a faster boxer is constantly catching him off balance with blinding counter shots..

If Gene Tunney could make Dempsey continually miss and then nail him with counters, I would guess Jones could do so even easier.