Who Fought More Bums? Ali or Joe Louis??

We all know that Louis had a bum of the month club, but Ali fought a lot of bums too, like:-

Dunn- total bumster
that Spanish guy who was so bad nobody knows his name
that Jap wrestler
Mildenberger {the man who gave us the Eurobum stereotype}
Henry Cooper- bummish to the nth degree, bled for fun
Brian London- I mean for fucks sake
JP Coopman- See Mildenberger
Chuck Wepner- yeah thats some talent right there.
Jurgen Blin- See Mildenberger/Coopman


So- who was the greater "Bum-Magnet"

 

The only way to measure this it to compare the BEST fighters that each fought, not the bums.

Every fighter has fought a bunch of bums. But have they all defeated alot of great fighters?

 

Personally I think Joe fought more bums. Some of the guys Ali gets credit for beating were guys who were bums. Cooper, who put him on his ass, and Spinks, who flatout beat him, was a kid/future bum.

Joe fought {and got floored by} guys who wouldn't hack it in a moderately competitive Cruiserweight division.

 

ROY JONES

 

Joe Louis...


REED

 

Wepner was the shit!!!! :nono:

 

The problem was more of the era and landscape of boxing. Today boxing is 100% a global sport. We complain about fighters not fighting the best today, but back then Champions would sometimes get a fight in say Chicago, his challenger couldn't make the date so they just through in some local hack like the list of names you put up, today someone pulls out and you can fly someone in on a whims notice. Back then because of the lack of transportation or even communication you couldn't. You can't really blame Joe Louis or Ali, they had to fight, its the only way they could get a payday.

Sly is right, you have to judge a fighter off of his fights against top level challengers, not the bottom.

 

Why throw in the definitive article where none is needed

Wepner was Shit.

 

Mildenberger gave Ali his toughest fight before Frazier according to Ali, and I doubt you have seen the fight, because if you did you would know it was a bitterly contested struggle.
Mildenberger folded Ali almost in half twice with left hands to the body and hurt him two more times with head shots.
I have already commented about the first Cooper fight extensively here, but if you go back and score the rounds between him and Ali in both fights, they were even in points until the stoppages.
Wepner was also no bum, Chuck was a tough SOB who went into the 15th with Ali.
Antonio Inoki was one of the greatest wrestlers ever, but let fear get to him with Ali and hardly ever got up off of the floor.
Had Inoki gotten up and tried to fight, he would have been knocked out and he knew it.
The other ones I'll give you.

 

Mildenberger was something of a European nearly man.....not the sort of guy Ali should have any trouble with. That said, Quarry had Ali going with lefts to the guts too, Maybe its a shot he had difficulty with. I've seen clips of the fight, its more Karls record with European opposition that I am going off when I call him a Eurobum. As for Cooper, he had some shocking stoppage losses on his record, and should have been fair game for Ali.

PS I thought I was on your ignore list??

 

Definite article.

 

owned.

 

Definitely!!

 

He is canadian. I learned my English from you lot......avvvvvvvv it!!

 

Muhammad Ali had 61 fights, and fought every meaningful opponent out there. Louis had 72 fights, and out of 25 title defenses, he only fought two black men.

 

He didn't fight a white man till Marciano. The rest were bums.

 

You know, I've always wanted to ask you this, but I've never known quite how. Do you have some sort of learning disability?

 

The Brown China Bomber fought way more bums and its not even close! How dare you compare chinless, overrated Joe Louis to Ali!

 

Tito fought more bums than RJ, Louis, and Ali combined.

 

::

Just stop posting about boxing. You'll embarrass yourself.

 

You're such a prick::

 

The question should be: who fought better opposition than Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali?

 

Ali. It simply isn't close. The only heavyweight who fought nearly as good competition would be Sam Langford. In other weight classes, only Harry Greb and Henry Armstrong fought better competition than Ali.

 

Thats like asking who fought better comp between Spaddy and Pernell Whitaker.

 

Precisely. First response on this thread:

 

Rubio: Don't know if I agree that only Greb and Armstrong fought better comp. I'd say, based totally on quality of comp, Jimmy McLarnin belongs in any discussion. There are others as well, but McLarnin fought some sick dudes. And because it's not elaborated, you note that Louis fought only two black fighters, but do you think that would have been the case had he not left for the war? A lot of the best black fighters of his reign (Bivins, Ray) were doing their thing while he was taking almost three years to USO it.

Karl: I just watched Mildenberger again the other day and it was a hell of a fight. The Chuvalo defense is also good stuff. Ali was great, but often we get so focused on the best nights that we forget that careers have lots of nights. If even Ray Robinson fought today, I'm sure someone would have a style that just gave him hell and I doubt he retires undefeated.

 

Agreed, Cliff...and there ARE others that should be mentioned as well.

Peace.

 

Oh, there's some great ones. I just love McLarnin's record. How many guys can say they fought HOF guys from flyweight (though he was a little bigger than his fly foes then) to welter.

 

You're ignoring the context of McClarnin's wins. While McClarnin feasted on smaller all-time-great fighters, Greb feasted on larger all-time-great fighters. Let's compare the two.

McClarnin was a natural welterweight, although he started out as a featherweight (facing flyweights and bantamweights, mostly). The Hall-of-Fame fighters he beat were:

• Barney Ross: Natural welterweight. McLarnin went 1-2.
• Benny Leonard: Natural lightweight, and far, far, far past his prime. McLarnin went 1-0.
• Lou Brouliard: Natural welterweight. McLarnin went 0-1.
• Tony Canzoneri: Natural featherweight/lightweight past his prime. McLarnin went 1-1.
• Young Corbett III: Natural welterweight. McLarnin went 1-0.
• Billy Petrolle: Natural lightweight. McLarnin went 2-1.
• Lou Ambers: Natural lightweight. McLarnin went 1-0.
• Sammy Mandell: Natural bantamweight. McLarnin went 1-1.
• Bud Taylor: Natural bantamweight. McLarnin went 2-1.
• Pancho Villa: Natural flyweight with a toothache. McLarnin went 1-0.
• Fidel LaBarba: Natural flyweight who fought McLarnin three times in his first three months as a pro. McLarnin went 2-0-1.

On the other hand, Harry Greb started and ended his career as a middleweight. Here are the Hall-of-Fame fighters he beat, including newspaper decisions:

• Tiger Flowers: Natural middleweight. Flower's two wins over Greb came at the end of Greb's career; one of them somewhat controversial. Strangely enough, both men died in surgery as the result of error by the same anaesthesiologist. Greb went 1-2
• Maxie Rosenbloom: Natural light heavyweight. Rosenbloom was somewhat green. Greb went 1-0
• Mickey Walker: Welterweight and Middleweight Champion who also fought at light heavyweight and heavyweight. Walker was coming up from welterweight, however. Greb went 1-0.
• Gene Tunney: One of the 15 or 20 greatest heavyweights of all time, but arguably a natural light heavyweight. Tunney was much bigger than Greb, who nearly killed him in their first two bouts, the second of which Tunney got a decision because Greb had five or six points taken away. Greb's record against him depends on with whom you talk, ranging from 1-2-0-2 to 3-1-1.
• Tommy Loughran: One of the 10 or so greatest light heavyweights of all time. One of the top heavyweights of the era. Greb went 4-1-1.
• Jimmy Slattery: Small light heavyweight around Greb's size. Later held the NBA World Light Heavyweight Championship. Greb went 1-0
• Kid Norfolk: Huge light heavyweight/small heavyweight. Greb was 17.5 pounds lighter than Norfolk when he beat him. Norfolk later got a hotly disputed DQ win over Greb. Greb went 1-1.
• Tommy Gibbons: One of the greatest light heavyweights of all time. Greb went 2-2.
• Battling Levinsky: One of the best light heavyweights of all time and a top heavyweight of the era. Greb went 6-0.
• Mike Gibbons: Natural middleweight. Greb went 1-1.
• Jack Dillon: World Light Heavyweight Champion best known for knocking out top heavyweights. Greb went 2-0.
• Jack Blackburn: Natural lightweight well past his prime, having spent time in prison for killing two people. He's in the IBHOF for training Louis, but many argue that he should be in because of what great a lightweight he was, beating Sam Langford, Dave Holly... Greb went 1-0.

And this is ignoring his wins over top heavyweights of the time (Gunboat Smith, Billy Miske, Jack Renault) and World Light Heavyweight Champions (Mike McTigue) who aren't in the IBHOF. There are also a couple of World Middleweight Champions, but who's counting?

Final score:

• Jimmy McLarnin: 12-6-1 against Hall-of-Fame fighters, almost all of whom were smaller.
• Harry Greb: 19-8-0-2 against Hall-of-Fame fighters, almost all of whom were larger. A few disputed decisions in there, but they probably even out.

 

How many people can say they beat Hall-of-fame fighters from welterweight to heavyweight? ::