Okay. Now think. The only instance of Louis being hurt that you've mentioned is him being knocked down for two seconds after walking into Toney Galento's best punch. THINK ABOUT HOW WEAK YOUR CASE IS. Sorry, but Ruddock wasn't anywhere near as good as Buddy Baer, let alone Max Baer or Joe Louis. I mean, how can you argue that Tyson could take JOE LOUIS's best shots based on him struggling with a chinny, asthmatic loser who never beat anyone. 90% of people's arguments that Tyson had a great chin revolve around his knockout losses. Think about how weak that case is. Beer bellied? We're not talking about Buster Douglas here. Half the current heavyweights are fatter than Galento was. Simply watch footage of him. He looked like a brawler, keeping his arms low and leading with the left hook, but he was a very awkward fighter, and he landed numerous illegal shots. That shot Lewis knocked out Michael Grant with? Galento landed two of them right before his overrated knockdown of Louis. For such a big guy, he had excellent footwork and fought well out of the clinch. Tucker and Green both troubled Tyson greatly using very similar tactics. Carnera had an excellent jab. Hmmm... I'm thinking of a really big heavyweight Tyson faced in Tokyo that wasn't very skilled but had an excellent jab. What happenened in that fight? They show that Louis could take a hell of a punch. Was he a Muhammad Ali when it came to chins? Of course not, but neither was Mike Tyson. Yeah, because Tony Galento knocked him down for two seconds?:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Simple question. Which fighter did Tyson beat that tells you that he could hang with someone the caliber as Louis? Don't say Spinks!!! :eeeek: Louis was used to wars, Tyson wasn't.
This is an asinine thread. Anyone who picks Louis is out of their mind. Its about footwork, handspeed, chin, and the fact that anyone picking Louis is biased beyond repair -Jaws
I'll elaborate in the slightest. Joe Louis NEVER fought anyone with HALF of Tyson's power. When he fought big guys with ABSOLUTEY NO SKILL like Buddy Baer and Tony Galento, he was put on his ass. Baer and Galento wouldn't last a minute with Tyson, and neither would 75% of the "Bum of the month" group that Louis fought for most of his career. Joe Louis had slow feet, and was soundly beaten on for extended periods from absolute midgets and geizers like Conn, Walcott. Joe Louis never fought anyone with Tyson-type speed, save Charles who was significantly different in style. A guy like Louis, who was dropped by C-D level fighters, who has poor footwork, can not possibly survive the early round assault thats sure to come. Perhaps master finishers like Buddy Baer and Tony Galento couldn't close the show, but Tyson NEVER let a guy off the hook when he blitzed them. The scenario here is plain as day, Tyson blitzes drops and stops Louis. People who think Louis has a chance, have to envision him rising from KD's weathering a storm against a MURDEROUS finisher, and eventually overcoming. Its the same bullshit from people who pick Ali, it has nothing to do with styles, its all fantasy loving bullshit. If you seriously believe Louis would defeat Tyson, you deserve harm. Its complete lunacy
I have seen Buddy Baer only in his one fight but in that one he didn't look very spectacular to me. He was outclassed by Gunnar Barlund who, skilful boxer though he was, was 6'2' and 200 lbs. I have hard time seeing Ruddock losing to him
Have you ever watched a Joe Louis fight? Or do you just have ESPN Classic on in the background while you post on the internet? See, this is just plain stupid. You don't know the difference between power and speed. Max Baer, Buddy Baer and Rocky Marciano had more power than Tyson. Fool. Mike Tyson: 5'10" Jersey Joe Walcott: 33 years old and 6'0" when he first fought Louis. 34 in the rematch. Was champion at the age of 39 Billy Conn: 23 years old and 6'1.5" when he fought Louis. 28 in the rematch. [/quote] Billy Conn, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, John Henry Lewis, Jack Sharkey and Jim Braddock had Tyson's speed. You simply don't know much. What about Buster Douglas? What about Danny Williams? He "blitzed" both of them, but they got off the canvas to knock Tyson out. Douglas and Williams did so, and they SUCKED. Stop pretending that you actually watch ESPN Classic. I've seen you watch fights. You keep your nose in the computer the whole time. You don't even watch boxing. You just post about it on the internet.
You're confusing power and being able to knock someone out. Tyson didn't knock people out with power. He knocked people out with speed, combination punching and timing. Baer wasn't nearly as good at knocking people out as Tyson was, but for pure power, Baer had him beat. 90% of his wins came by knockout, with nearly half of his wins ending in the first round. He had pure power, but little of the technique and speed of Tyson. You, on the other hand, say that 5'10" Mike Tyson is too big for Joe Louis,while dismissing 6'1.5" Billy Conn and 6'0" Jersey Joe Walcott as "midgets." ::
Come on dude....your must be baiting here. Diego Corrales was taller than Tyson for christsakes, and he was too small for welterweights nevermind modern heavyweights.
dsimon writes: LOuis wins probably in around the 8th round or so.... there is a possability if they fought a series Tyson might win on an early onslaught once out of three though. I won't rehash suffice to say I agree with most of Rubio's thesis with the one caveat being the comment about Tyson beating one with speed. Tyson had both speed and good power (in both hands). Both guys hit you hard, often and in different spots... seldom head hunting. Tyson didn't use timing so much he used variety and forcong the guy back. As a combo puncher in the first rounds Tyson was simply the best. No heavyweight could expect to match him without a way of getting past him in the first 3 rounds. Why does Louis prevale? Generally speaking: Louis was faster. He was the best pure puncher at heavy ever. His combos were more powerful and faster thanTyson, but they usually came at more regular intervals and not simply as an onslaught because Louis was a patient man who took his time. He beats Mike with counterpunching and pushing Mike back pure and simple. Then he goes to work..... a) Louis was not a plodder! he was a stalker. He set up his guy by keeping at a distance and then unleashing. His footwork was for that purpose that was what he was taught to do. That and to counterpunch. Watch Louis... he virtually never is in defensive mode, that was in fact his undoing against Shmelling BTW. He kept his left low while stalking and he got hit too good by Shmelling to counter. Holy beat Tyson jut like Louis would, he never backed off. He pushed Tyson back on his heels rather than back off. Louis would do the same basic thing with respect to footwork. It is also a Japanese martial arts principle... you triangulate the guy, Any time he squares up you can push him on his heels. b) Louis was smart. Louis knew the game and knew that guys like Max Bauer (who had a harder right than Tyson) are neutralized when one backs them up. Again: Watch Holy, he was taught to do what Louis knew instinctively c) Louis had the most problems with guys who were evasive not punchers. He was way past it when he fought Marciano. But guys like Conn who could match him in speed more regularly were a nightmare for him. The only other way to beat Tyson was to do what Ali did and Douglas showed how to do that.
seriously, where does one get the kind of marijuana that makes Joe Louis Faster than Tyson, or make Tyson have less power than Marciano or Buddy Baer, or The way to beat Tyson was do what Ali did? You guys need to stop doing drugs...seriously
dsimon writes: Is that so "Astra" sounds suspiciously like something jaws might say hummmm! :: I don't buy the power argument in its entirety that is Rubio's baby. I actually think Tyson has a hell of a lot of power and I wouldn't know how to compare it to guys who could punch hard but were really more big and strong than punchers per se... Guyes like Abe Simon and Buddy Bear and Prima Canera. But Max Baeur (Buddies brother) had a solid right and not much else, but a very hard right and he couldn't touch Louis with it. you know Bauer's sense of humer right? The following was said to have occured.... He gets back to the corner in the second round and his corner tells him " He (Louis) ain't don nothin to ya Maxie..." Max turns around and says "Well then the referee is beating the shit out of me watch him for me." :: :: Louis was incredibly fast... truly more explosive than anything else, buddy boy. Him and Sugar Ray... Sugar Ray could do it going backwards. And keep in mind how long Louis and Mike apprenticed. Both guys were deliberate. Tyson decided long ago that the way to get to the top unscathed was to fight twelve opponents in 12 rounds so to speak. Louis decided long ago the way to catch somoene was to take your time and stalk them. My point is that really and truly in some bizarro world Louis could have fought like Tyson and vice versa. But Tyson and Dempsey... they worked, like a bull in a china shop... Louis worked smart, he never wasted energy or a punch. Everything that he threw was calculated to land. His footwork was designed with the same specs.... He didn't bounce he didn't bob. He was right outside your zone itl he wanted to come in. Remember Yunior as they say in Mehico....Louis: "He can run but he can't hide (Rubio correct me).... was it the Billy kan fight that made him utter those words?
You're confusing handspeed with combination speed. Sure, Mike Tyson could land a punch before Louis could; he could land three punches before Louis could; but he sure as hell couldn't land six punches faster than Louis could. Anyway, the whole discussion of punching power is rather moot. Rocky Marciano did throw a 925 PSI punch at a military installation, using 12-ounce gloves. It's usually rounded up to 1000, and it's called the most powerful punch ever recorded. The biggest problem with comparing PSI ratings is that you have to recreate the conditions exactly. I read an ancient article that the power of a few of the fighters from Jim Jeffries's era was measured. The idea behind the stunt was of course to prove that white men are superior to black men because no one could punch harder than Jim Jeffries. No boxing writer of the era would even think of suspecting that someone punched harder than Jim Jeffries. It was a given that Jeffries was going to win, as he was the greatest knockout artist boxing had ever seen. He faced off against Jack Johnson, Sam Langford and Sam McVey. Surprisingly enough, McVey won (reportedly with a punch of 1600 PSI), but what did that really mean? It really only means that under those specific conditions, he was better than Jeffries in one specific way. It doesn't mean that he punched harder than Marciano. Also, size alone doesn't mean that one person hits harder than another. In various tests, you'll see a super middleweight outpunch a heavyweight. The margin of error is great.
this is my fiance's account, mine is suspended until October 15th...these are her decorations not mine.
