160, 168 and 175 pounders you'd pick to beat Sloppy Joe....

vs. Toney, Jones Jr, Hopkins, Hagler, Hearns: Calzaghe, in all probability shits himself before the 1st bell.
vs. Nunn, Leonard, McCallum: Calzaghe loses on points. Decisively.
vs. Liles, Tarver, Dawson, Johnson, Wright: Calzaghe wins quite easily.

 

Here's my list:

Michael Spinks
Gene Tunney
Bob Foster
Harry Greb
Sugar Ray Robinson
Carlos Monzon
Gus Lesvenich
Tiger Jack Fox
Eddie Muhammad
Jose Torres
Marin Hagler
Michael Moorer
Marvin Johnson
Willie Pastrano
Doug Jones
Lloyd Marshall
Mickey Walker
Bernard Hopkins
Marcel Cerdan
Jake LaMotta
Bob Fitzsimmons
Charley Burley
Tiger Flowers
Battling Levinsky
Dwight Muhammad Qawi
John Coteh
Dariusz Michalschewski
Virgil Hill
Archie Moore
Billy Conn
Tommy Loughran
Roy Jones
Harold Johnson
Jimmy Bivins
Tommy Gibbons
Tommy Burns
Eddie Booker
Ezzard Charles
Stanley Ketchel
Sam Langford
Georges Carpentier
Jack Dillon
Jack Root
Matthew Saad Muhammad
Dick Tiger
James Toney
Tony Zale
Jack Dempsey
Joey Maxim
John Henry Lewis
Maxie Rosenbloom
Jack Delaney
Victor Galindez
Holman Williams
Michael Nunn

and maybe Antonio Tarver.

 

basically, if calzaghe wins too easily, double l go ahead and label kessler as another bum. ::

 

:bears: :bears:

well done. very comprehensive.

 

that's just his opinion, which I doubt many would agree with.

rubio is a fan of old timers, which is fine, but at the same time he's like the anti-jaws who think the old timers can't compete with modern fighters.

hardly an objectively compiled list if you ask me.

 

dsimon writes:

Double L I like you so much better when you are trashed... when are you goin gto get trashed and start posting again? :cheer:

 

I use the same set of criteria for rating Calzaghe as I do any of those other fighters. Quality of opposition is a major criterion for me, and Calzaghe simply hasn't beaten anyone even vaguely resembling an all-time great. This forum is very strongly biased towards fighters who fought when its members were alive. On other fora, I'm just as often acused of being biased against fighters from before 1980 or 1940, for daring to pick Riddick Bowe over Ken Norton and saying that Jim Corbett would be raped against Evander Holyfield. .

And I'm the anti-Jaws not because I favor old-time fighters in certain circumstances, but because I put a great deal of thought into my posts.

 

dsimon writes:

Slappsy Maxie? :: The man who didn't want to huyt da adda dope, just slap em around a little bit.:: I could see it. Sadd Muhammed is one of my faves along with Witherspoon, because my martial arts teacher taught him a bit in Philly... dude was legendary, as a martial artist and boxer.

As usual a great list. Quite a few of your guys are big enough that they took or fought for heavy weight gold... Is that the type that takes Calzighe to task to you? If one had to generalize?

 

dsimon writes:

But he has a couple of guys that were really good that just didn't make it on the radar. Guys like Saad Muhammed for example. And guys like Maxie Rosenblum who could fight light heavy easy and outslap Calzighe.... Soething Maxie did against some guys who were quite good actually.

 

A wise man once said: "Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity".

In the case of Double L, rarely have such insightful words been uttered.

 

so profound. and yet, so stupid coming from you. still, i have to admire you for trying so deliberately to hide your mental deficit.

 

Rosenbloom was an excellent fighter. When people talk about Glencoffe Johnson, Keith Mullings or (**shudder**) Emanuel Augustus being ripped off the most times, ask 'em how they feel about Rosenbloom. His record stands at 221-42-32, but he easily could have got the decision in 270 or 280 of those fights (he fought 298 total). He was only stopped twice, both times against heavyweights, and one of which was a dive on the behest of Jack Kearns, who made sure that Rosenbloom always got to fight the best guys.

In an era when white and Jewish fighters could go an entire career without fighting a single black fighter, which Gene Tunney never did, Rosenbloom had 70 fights against top black light heavyweights and heavyweights.

Everyone knows that Rosenbloom had blazing handspeed and a nearly impenetrable defense, but few people realize how physically strong he was. Some heavyweight would get in there with him and think that he'd easily muscle "Slapsie" around the ring, only to get mauled to death. Rosenbloom simply didn't like punching people as much as you'd expect from a guy with 300 pro fights. He just liked to outland them.

Calzaghe's like a very, very poor man's Maxie Rosenbloom, and someone with the Calzaghe/Rosenbloom style actually does fairly well against heavyweights, as a general rule. The problem with Calzaghe is that he hasn't even made the step up to light heavyweight, despite five years of saying that he was going to, so you really can't give him that benefit of the doubt.

I simply don't know how he'd stand up against someone with the power of Floyd Patterson, Michael Spinks or Bob Foster. Maybe he could deal with it; maybe he couldn't. That's the problem with making a career out of fighting fringe contenders; you don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

This thread is pointless IMO. Does anyone really consider Joe as an "all time great" type of fighter? I sure don't.

 

It depends on who you talk to. There is a very strong case for Calzaghe being the greatest Super Middy of all-time. That doesn't carry the same weight as being the greatest middle, Light heavy...hell, evne the greatest Jr Middy...but it still means something and the majority of people at least acknowledge he's among the best of that class.

Double L? Reading his rants, you could be fooled into thinking that Calzaghe couldn't even hold a candle to a Franke Liles ::

 

yes. a lot of people do. hence this thread was necessary in order to set everyone straight. :: Sloppy is garbage.

 

Yeah, but at the same time, boxing history has been littered with guys who were natural super middles, like Greb, Fitzsimmons, LaMotta, Marshall, Moore and Conn, who were simply on another level. If you really compare Calzaghe to other guys his size - which is fair, after all - he's not an all-time-great fighter.

Right. The only really good name on Calzaghe's resume is Nunn, and you can't watch his bout with Little and think that he was an all-time-great. Liles? Meh. I mean, a big, tough southpaw like that's going to give anyone trouble, but he wasn't Antonio-Tarver good.

 

Calling someone the greatest super middy of all time is just retarded IMO. You simply have to put them in the same category as LtHW's since that is the weight they would have been fighting before boxing over saturated us with another weight class. And IMHO, he doesn't even crack the top25 in greatest LtHW's of all time.

 

er..nunn?

Calzaghe pimped his welsh brethren for many ears, fighting nobodies, telling everyone the big fights were on the way while fighting handpicked marks (even ignoring shitty mandatory freeman barr for years)...he seems to have grown a pair recently or perhaps he feels like the circus is coming to an end...I think calzaghe will relinquish teh crown pretty tamely to kessler, I get the impresssion he wants to finish off now...

 

Nunn was past it.

 

You are likely referring to fellow past-it MW Chris Eubank...

 

:dunno: So what? Yeah.

But Robin Reid wasn't. Jeff Lacy wasn't. Both of them were better than Nunn was by the time Liles caught up with him.

 

point is, you claim in your post that Calzaghe beat Nunn. but the fact is, he never faced him. what you probably meant to say is that Calzaghe beat Eubank.

either way, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Liles could've beaten Calzaghe - the guy was a good boxer and he hit hard too.

 

Calzaghe never had any intention on fighting anyone of substance durin his younger years. I remember his calling out Roy Jones in 2001 on the Tyson-Neilsen undercard...

COMPLETELY forgetting that by that time, Jones hadn't fought at 168 in four or five years. ::

He waits until the end of his career to have his toughest challenge because he knows he can cash out. Hell, the Lacy win basically bought him a year and a half of BS fights. (Bika and Manfredo)

 

Bika was a BS fight?

 

Are you retarded or something? I said that the best fighter on Liles's record was Nunn, and that he wasn't that good by that point.

 

I know Calzaghe really isn't the most likeable fighter, inside or outside the ring, but you're underrating him.

I think he has a fighter's heart too, he won't relinquish anything tamely to kessler.

I am picking Calzaghe by clear decision.

 

:dunno:

 

Comparing him to 175 isnt really that fare. Theres ALOT of light heavys in history who woulda kicked Joe's ass.

At 160-168 the list is Hopkins, RJ, Monzon, Hagler, and Toney as guys who'd have beaten him.

 

::

Why not add Michael Watson, Benn, Collins while you're at it....

 

I'm honestly surprised double L didn't list Librado Andrade.