Lennox Lewis Slaps Tito Ortiz??

But I will give 2 different things that may or may not happen. One Lemmon punches tito with a straight right the likes of which tito has never felt or seen and its lights out tito. Or tito may just be fast enough to grab a leg and take lemmon to the ground and try to pound him. You just dont know. I know you being or used to be an mma guy can only think that the smaller mma guy will win every single time against a World Heavyweight Champion Hall of Famer that has lost more punching power than ANYONE tito has ever fought still has. But its your opinion.

 

Sure, it's the same if same means the opposite of same.

 

It's all BS. Lewis didn't slap Tito or vice versa. Somebody on a message board got excited upon hearing the news that Lewis, John Cena and Tito Ortiz were all going to be on a show together and decided to throw some bs rumour out there and people bought it hook line and sinker.

 

Ding Ding Ding..


....or a cheap publicity stunt whereby a rumor like this is intentionally started..

 

If Lewis' mother or wife was attacked, you might see an animal side of Lewis which you've never seen before. But according to what I know and have read, Lewis is laid back and respectful and not the confrontational type.
Hence it's all just a rumour. Tito Ortiz likewise isn't somebody who goes around looking for fights on the street, especially against a fellow fighter.

 

Your claim that an mma guy wins every single time against a HoF boxer is about as insightful as dogshit in Siberia.
Yeap, Its the same.

 

How many times would Couture beat Valuev in a boxing match?

 

Once again, mike, can you provide the evidence that you say exists on MMA fighters beating professional boxers?

 

Gracie beat some no name tomato can boxers a numbers of years ago by taking him down and making him submit.

Therefore every MMA fighter beats every boxer. They just lunge for the legs and it's over. Every boxer is utterly hopeless against any trained MMA fighter.

 

Before I answer, where did I say this?

 

I would hope everytime, but I dont like Valuev. I really dont know. You have to remember that Valuev is NO WHERE near the level of LL. Thats crazy.

 

Art Jimmerson I believe his name was.

 

Who the hell is that? I guess he was a boxer and lost, therefore proving that someone with grappling skills defeats all boxers.

 

I think steve dave might beat Valuev. As for Couture, I don't think his boxing skills are really anything to make a fuss over despite outboxing the 'elite striker' Tim Sylvia.::

 

He was some journeyman. Here's his boxrec stats:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=002044&cat=boxer

 

The only recognizeable names on his resume all knocked him out in short fashion.

That's irrelevant though.

He was a BOXER.

A guy who trained in MMA beat him.

Thus MMA fighters beat all boxers, just grab them legs baby.

Josh Koscheck > Mike Tyson

 

I remember Art Jimmerson fighting in an early UFC. If I recall correctly, he wore 1 boxing glove.

Those early UFC's were wacky.

TFK


***Edit***

Yup, there is was...

 

:: Classic series of posts from Whiskey.

 

:laughing:

 

also Milten Bowen fought in an early UFC

 

I guess they were trying to go with the Street Fighter 2 thing.




:laughing:

 

Well, I see why you are having a problem getting this.

If they hopped in the ring today, Valuev would beat the living shit out Lennox in all likelihood. Lennox would only have a chance early before his anaerobic stamina ran out.

 

Here

 

Thanks.

The empirical evidence I'm referring to is not "superstar pro boxer" vs mma, it's "doesn't know shit on the ground" vs mma.

Tank Abbott would be a good example. No one would want to get hit by him, but when mma guys just go right after him, he sucks.

All of the early UFC is applicable...guys who knew the ground game whooped up on guys who didn't.

The dynamics of this haven't shifted. What has shifted is that there no longer are guys who don't know the ground game (to some extent, at least) in mma. Either you know the ground or you know how to stay safe long enough to get put back on your feet or you know how to avoid getting taken down.

Nothing, not a single thing, about being a great boxer prepares a boxer to know this stuff. So, until I hear differently, I'm assuming Lennox doesn't know any of it. He has no reason to.

The other 'proof' isn't really proof, it's just recognition that no boxers have crossed over. The very best mma guys do make more than a generic top 10 pro boxer. Where is the Mario Veit, Golden Johnson, Brian Adams level of boxer crossing over and kicking ass in mma? Hell, where's the former champs crossing over and kicking ass? Nowhere to be seen.

mY conclusion is because the skillset that makes a very good boxer doesn't cross over to mma.

 

Now I see why you are not getting it Mike. You are talking about a street fight. Not a Ring fight. A street fight is not going to last as long as a sanctioned fight. I think you have spent too much time in the gym my man.:doh:

Oh and I guess its just me that doesnt get it. Not everyone else on here that says your wrong too.

 

Here's an example of a guy with limited ground skills against a former WBO Heavyweight Champion who had zero ground skills.


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Now Tito's skills are much much better then Kimbo, and Lewis was a much better fighter then Mercer (in spite of their fight), but I have to think a well rounded MMA fighter beats a boxer almost every time.




TFK

 

dsimon writes:

Thats true to an extent MIke. Yes the sport has definite criteria, things that one has to know, but thats not the whole picture.

People train differently for the ground because the stand up has changed. In the early days guys didn't have to worry so much about being punched out. The ground game that was originally part of the MMA was Jui Jitsu based. And it was effective partially because the stand up was an afterthought.

But Wrestlers, more so than strikers, really changed the equation because they work better against Ju Jiutsu guys. Remember the Kimbo Gracie fight? It was seminal because it showed that a tough guy who could wrestle could sustain a Ju Juitsu approach. Now, Bear with me here.... Everybody learned the wrestling stuff and at that time more than a few olympic wrestlers entered the UFC because they realized that they could work well against the grracie stuff that had dominated. Remember, the Gracie stuff never got snuffed by strikers... it got challenged by wrestlers who have really good balance and a low center of gravity which (Ican say from experience) makes Jui Jitsu work look sucky!:: even when it is succesful. But you have to hit a wrestler imo.

Now, the strikers started to come out and be succesful because strikers, while not working well against Ju Jiutsu work well against the wrestlers. So, the truth as I see it is that striking didn't evolve as much as people think... it just made a timely appearance. To this day I think the strikers in UFC could be neutralized by a good Jui Jitsu guy who used traditional Gracie technique. But guys don't use that anymore, they use some of it (very limited) and use a lot of wrestling which does not work as well against strikers. Thats just my opinion.:dunno:

 

I agree that in a streetfight, an MMA fighter would win a majority of the time, but EVERY time? I'm not so sure about that.

Tank Abbott is nowhere near a boxer. If anything, the fact that Abbott was remotely successful makes your arguement worse.



Butterbean did very well against something named Cabbage. The same Cabbage that was very highly regarded as a heralded gatekeeper in the most recent UFC pay per view.

 

Give me a break!!!
Let's get real now. The majority of the MMA fighters coming in are f*cking garbage! A lot of them don't even have real fighting backgrounds, no amateur background in any discipline. They join a dojo and within a year or two they're on a reality show trying to win a contract.
Case in point: Brad Imes. This big sack of sh*t had ZERO background in any martial art.:: He was a no-talent football player in college. The guy got laid off from a retail landscape and supply store and was waiting tables at a pizza joint in 2004 before somebody told him to get into mma. That was in August 2004.
2 months later in October of that same year after very basic training in mma, he's fighting in the big leagues and is compiling a winning record, not to mention he's taking some of mma's most talented competitors to the limit including college wrestling and mma star Rashad Evans(full 3 rounds) and the ultra experienced Pride superstar Heath Herring(full 5 rounds). Neither guy managing to convincingly beat this former football player with his limited mma training.
Same with James Thompson of Pride. Going out and defeating the likes of Judo Gold medalist Yoshida and legend Don Frye and compiling an mma record of 14-7 despite having nothing going for him other than his size. The man falls over throwing a half assed punch! What's funny is that James got blown out by Butterbean of all people in the 1st from a basic hook.:: Butterbean himself not doing too badly in his mma career with his 10-4 record despite being as ridiculously obese as he is.
The point is, a lot of the mma fighters out there are not world class in the least in any area. Don't let Joe Rogan and Dana White fool you with their bullsh*t. The majority of these mma fighters are coming off a lot of hype.
Let's just stop with the bullsh*t that an mma fighter is going to be making easy work of a world class boxer. It's nowhere near as cut and dry as it's made out to be.