Double L - eat your crow

Since when fighter's appeal and money-making ability should be used to measure his greatnes??
You're aware that there have been plenty of great fighters who never achieved one tenth of Gatti's popularity, right?

 

yeah but Joe packs arenas against the likes of Bika and Veit. and he's been at this a long time.

 

de la hoya got hit plenty vs. quartey, mosley, sturm, and has been knocked down by a complete bum. he also would've gotten the worst beating of his life vs. hopkins in the second latter of their fight, but decided to check out early once it got a little heated.

also when it was time to deliver against top notch opposition, de la hoya failed to do so.

 

yeah. fk ODH. he's no good. Sloppy Joe is way better. that's why he's so famous all over the world, and why his fight with David Starie is the worst fight i've ever seen. and why in 10 years he's managed to take on 2 perceived threats, one of whom hadn't beaten anyone prior to their meeting. sorry about that. ODH is crap. what did he ever do?

 

oscar's so called super fights that he won are overrated.

vargas - damaged goods

whitaker - despite whatever double l might think, a lot of folks weren't convinced of this supposed 'win'. plus, whitaker was past his peak and clearly on the downside

mayorga - damaged goods

chavez - damaged goods. old as fuck

chavez - rematch, oscar tried bullying the smaller, much older guy and got away with it.

gonzalez - good lightweight, shitty jr. welterweight. oscar faded down the stretch and showed questionable stamina.

quartey - oscar won no more than 4 rounds and got outjabbed by an inative fighter.

sturm - oscar won no more than 5 rounds at best against a mediocre middleweight

rueles - mediocre title holder

 

do you ever wonder how it happens that in every case of ODH's having been in a close fight, you find it appropriate to declare it a decisive loss for ODH? you simply can't stand ODH. and as a result, you can't judge his career accurately.

ODH would beat Sloppy P4P. He's just better.

 

vargas - perceived threat

whitaker - perceived threat

chavez - percieved threat; only one loss on his record; past his prime or not, had anyone come close to handling Chavez the way ODH did in their first fight; would it kill you to give the guy some credit?

gonzalez - perceived threat; best available comp at 140;

quartey - perceived threat;

rueles - perceived threat;

 

p4p (there is no such thing) or not, oscar doesnt beat calzaghe period.

i dont dislike oscar. i state facts. he's never delivered against a top calibre fighter.

 

i dont recall ever thinking that gonzalez was going to be a threat. the guy got a gift vs lamar murphy.

i gave chavez zero chance of beating oscar.

vargas was a threat because he was bigger. turned out, he was damaged goods.

 

if he fought the level of comp throughout his career that Joe did, everyone would be saying he delivered fine against top calibure comp because they'd be saying how good he looked against guys like Rivera, Ruelas, Molina and Leija.

 

well, obviously, your opinion doesn't count for shit when it comes to ODH's comp. i'm simply recounting public opinion going into those fights.

 

He's not better than Calzaghe, but there's no shame in that. Calzaghe is still a very underrated fighter...even after whuppin' both Lacy and Kessler.

In a P4P battle between the two it would be close but I have to think that Joe will win it, at least objectively.

 

leija was a fucking midget compared to oscar. but yea, i'll give you that one. it was a good win.

as for rivera, a guy known for giving an old pernell fits, sure that was a decent win.

i dont remember oscar looking good vs. molina. molina roughed him up.

none of those guys were as good as kessler.

 

Not only were none of those guys as good as kessler, oscar himself is a kessler level fighter.

They are both VERY good, but not quite great.

Calzaghe is better than oscar, P4P.

Oscar has never convincingly beaten a prime Kessler level fighter, and he wouldn't.

 

your opinion doesn't count for shit when it comes to boxing period. you repetitively start threads about fighters you hate yet you get all defensive when i speak the truth about your beloved hero.

 

one thing about oscar is that at a young age, he took on a lot of big fights and fought at a competitive level. in that sense, maybe he is a great fighter, but he's not an all time great and falls short against guys that are.

 

whatever. anyone with half a brain wouldn't try to say that Calzaghe has had a better career than ODH - that's simply ludicrous.

 

Oscar doesn't have one victory as good as Calzaghe's clear win over Kessler, but that's just one win and doesn't mean Calzaghe is greater than Oscar overall. Lennox Lewis doesn't have one win as good as Buster Douglas's win in Tokyo or Max Schmeling over Joe Louis, but LL was greater than those 2.

Okay, that's an extreme example, and Calzaghe does have some solid wins in addition to Kessler (Lacy, Brewer, Woodhall, etc...), but Oscar has a lot of solid wins too. Ruelas may be looked upon as weak in hindsight, but he was considered a top 3 LW when DLH destroyed him. DLH had some solid wins over smaller guys coming up from 130 (Molina, Leija, Hernandez), wins over contenders over the years (Rivera, MAGO), and other wins over guys who were still good despite being past their best (Chavez, Vargas)....in addition to the controversial decisions which make DLH a rather difficult fighter to rank all-time.

What do you guys think of the DLH-Mosley rematch in terms of DLH's all-time standing? How does it affect it? DLH fights Mosley at a downpoint in Shane's career. Shane wins a controversial decision in which the opinions are somewhat evenly split (the ringside press favors Mosley, people watching on TV favor DLH). Then years later, Shane admits to being on the juice.

I guess it's kind of a status quo.

 

There's no denying that Oscar has fought more quality opponents.

But Calzaghe's win over Kessler is clearly better than any of Oscar's wins, AND Calzaghe is legitimately undefeated.

You could argue Oscar has the better career or resume. But Calzaghe is the better fighter.

 

I'm not sure.

What I do am sure of though, is that Calzaghe shouldn't have had this fight at this point in his career. Maybe he can do something about it by finishing it like crazy with top challenges. He's a very good fighter, no doubt.

 

:nono: Medusa bested Tyson's father twice, so I have to disagree.

 

Tyson was better in 1990 than Holyfield in 1999, IMO.