You say "Isreal Who" and then mention....eagle kyowa, chris john, hozumi hasegawa, and takemufi sakata? :laughing:
ah, I never checked your original post since you started the thread :: ... i see you finally edited it, replacing JMM's duplicate entry with Vazquez. Good job.
Chris John better than Vazquez? You're 'avin a fucking laugh yeah? :: Size difference n all, I'd pick Vazquez to batter John tomorrow.
chris john - wba featherweight champ (holds a controversial W over jmm) sakata - wba flyweight champ (holds wins over lorenzo parra and robert vasquez) eagle kyowa - the baddest little man on the planet! hozumi hasegawa - current wbc banty champ
REED hasn't heard of the "Atomweight" division? :dunno: Donny wrote a college term paper on this weight class.
Absolutely. And it's not just about "who's the best" given a subjective evaluation of skills & technique. Quality of opposition and level of dominance HAS to factor in, because to take it to the extreme - anyone can look good in the gym vs. a heavy bag. It's what happens in the ring vs. quality opposition that counts. And definitely needs to have at last a 2-3 year time window (or thereabouts). Peace.
It is (or should be) only about 'who's the best?'. Who would you bet on if the same size? Who would you bet on against a variety of fighters? It's not inconsistent or illogical to say someone with a 'poor' resume is the best fighter p4p if that's who you actually believe is the 'best fighter p4p.' What is illogical is to say that I think "xx" is better than "yy", but since "yy" has a better resume, he should be ranked higher.
agreed. but a judgement made on that basis carries little weight and can hardly stand up to one bolstered with the proof of an impressive resume.
hey - did i list him above PBF on the P4P list? no. but let's face it when it comes to fighters competing in the 147 pound division, Margarito HAS fought the better competition. Cintron and Williams shit on Mitchell, Judah and Baldomir. Mitchell and Judah aren't even real welter-weights, and in Mitchell's case he didn't accomplish dick there. Judah had one win there against the only guy feather-fisted enough not to beat him into a shell.
I agree with the point that ALL divisions have to be considered....and strong consideration would have to go to Kyowa and Sakata. But John or Hasegawa over Vazquez? No. :nono: Neither has done enough yet to merit ranking over Vazquez - Hasegawa is on his way. And I'm not so sure about Eagle recently (and I'm quite the fan)...I think Calderon has surpassed him. Peace.
I would disagree. Nobody's p4p ranking means jack shit unless someone puts something on the line to back it up. So can it stand up? Sure, if future results back it up. That's really the best way to judge a p4p list--future results, not the past.
My point is it's a COMBINATION of factors....skills and technique and who you THINK beats who being only one. You can speculate all you want... But you prove "who is best" IN THE RING, against good-to-elite opponents. Your subjective evaluation (and mine) based on skill and on some mythical speculation who we THINK they would beat means squat. Emmanuel Augustus is one of the finest technicians in the game - shall we go ahead and place him in the top 5 PxP? Bojado and Ricardo Williams looked absolutely spectacular coming up through the ranks - at their "early peak", plenty were speculating they could become top fighters and beat X, Y, and Z guys. Should we have gone ahead and made them PxP top-5? This is the problem I have with such speculation. If people think PxP is an exercise in subjectivity when considering accomplishments, level of opposition, dominance, etc.....well then, using your criteria makes it a pure flight of fancy. Pacquiao is sloppy as hell and doesn't look like he'd beat too many top boxers...but he's PROVEN he can, and PROVEN his chin, strength, power, speed and stamina (which are hard to quantify until you see them in the ring in action) - by taking on the opposition in the ring. Duran? Didn't look like much - and hell, lost to Marcel early. LaMotta, Armstrong? "Sloppy". I think Linares can very likely beat all the champions and top contenders at 126 AND 130....but I sure as hell won't put him PxP top-10 until he proves it consistently (over the course of at least 1-2 years - unless he happens to dominate a top-10 PxPer). Peace.
I see....so then we make a PxP list...and then check back 5 years later to see if it was accurate. :dunno: :: If you are going to make a PxP list, it has to be based on what a boxer HAS PROVEN. See previous post. Anywhoo....doesn't matter anyway. :: Peace.
Funny that I don't see Winky on a lot of lists. He was often as high as #2 on a lot of lists before he fought Hopkins.
winky looked terrible at 170. he eats a lot in between fights and would probably have hard time making 160 next time he fights. he's certainly not the best middleweight in the world anymore. i'd pick pavlik and abraham to beat him. he'll probably beat sturm tho.
1) Pacquioa 2) Calzaghe 3) Pavlik 4) Williams 5) Dawson 6) Margarito 7) Cotto 8) Mosely 9) Kessler 10) Juan Manuel Marqez ?) Hopkins ?) Sturm ?) Fraud ?(b) De La Hoya ?) Baldomir ?) Judah
