Taylor - Pavlik 2: Let's discuss this one!!!

This is one of those fights where I have a head/heart conflict!

I usually bet with my head (last time I bet with my heart over my head was when Lewis destroyed Tyson...I picked Tyson)....and my head says that Pavlik wins again, by KO, more emphatically. Fighters usually get better when they win a championship and Jermaine KNOWS he can be KOed and Pavlik KNOWS he cn come back from whatever Taylor dishes out and stop him.

Logically, Pavlik can't lose this fight.

However

I have the feeling that Taylor has worked out what he did wrong last time and will come back and finish what he started in round two of the first fight. Maybe it's because I WANT Taylor to win or maybe it's because deep down i still think he's better than Pavlik...I'm not sure.

What do you think happens?

 

I really don't see anything in Taylor's arsenal that allows him to win this fight. It's all up to Pavlik. If Pavlik decides to put his hands down and sticks out his chin, Taylor may win. But if Pavlik sticks with his plan and keeps his confidence, it shouldn't be any different from the first fight.
I think Taylor needs an easy tune up fight instead of getting right back in there with Pavlik.

 

Since when does an "easy tune up fight" when you've had no extended layoff prepare you for a rematch better than if you go right back at him? Lennox Lewis took no easy tune up figth before the rematch with Rahman for example. No other Middleweight would prepare Taylor for Pavlik and so he may as well go stright for him.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Taylor has NO CHOICE but to immediately rematch Pavlik and hope to get revenge. Otherwise he cannot be taken seriously...

 

dsimon writes:

During the Cotto Mosley fight there was a guy who was kind of quiet but knew the square circle and he had made the following prediction: "Towards the end of the fight Cotto will start to jab Mosley and outfinesse him, meanwhile Shane not to be outdone will threaten Cotto to the body and with aggressive relentless pursuit." People laughed at him and called him Double L's red headed step child....

So Sly: within a certain range of possabilities things can occur if one thinks carefully about them but some things are simply not predictable. In the above example one would have to be pretty silly to have predicted Cotto would have done what he did and likewise for Shane. In the Middle Ages to believe Galileo's theory about Jupiter's moons would be analogous to believing every Space Alien conspiracy we read about today.... virtually any sane person at that time would have believed the Church's theories which were grounded in Aristotle's ideas.

When you say that Taylor will act a certain way against Pavlik the real issue is the possabilities, not the whimsical nature of the prediction. Taylor is a very competative and strong individual. He could assert himself over Pavlik, it is a possability. He could work with a different trainer who clicks with him and make some changes... He won't turn into a slick boxer, but develop some skills in the ring, it is possible.

I think Taylor's biggest problem will be stamina. He has to avoid fading down the stretch against Pavlik if it becomes a war. He is young he could work on his conditioning. Pavlik is not that great that it is a given he will win the rematch, there is a possability that this time Taylor will win.

 

Because many times, a brutal KO loss is more psychologically damaging than anything else. Lewis knew deep down that Rahman landed a lucky punch, he always figured Rahman was just a bum.
Is Taylor convinced that Pavlik is nothing more than just another tall white guy who landed a lucky punch? I would doubt that seriously.
Taylor got smashed.:dunno:
I also don't put Taylor anywhere near on the pedistool of a Lennox Lewis. Just my opinion.
I'm willing to bet, when Pavlik cocks his fist, Taylor will wince and become very defensive in the rematch. That confidence will be shot when Pavlik lands that first hard punch flush.

 

How insightful.::
You lads are trying to convince yourselves that Taylor can win. He can't win. He's not very good. He's fighting Pavlik and he'll be fighting himself. He's gonna be scared sh*tless, overly defensive and will get stopped again.

 

In another thread, you tried to shit on me because I changed my mind at the 12th hour and picked Tyson to beat Lewis and yet you did the EXACT same thing?

Talk about a hypocrite.

:stir:

 

For some reason I do think Taylor has a chance here. He now knows what to expect for and he is physically a gifted athlete, plus he came very close of stopping Pavlik last time. Kelly is the favourite, but Taylor has the speed, he has sharpness and if he can turn the loss into motivation instead of fear and comes out hungrier than ever, who knows

 

Not even Mike Tyson could channel his fear into fury in the Holyfield rematch. He became even more discouraged and was even being defensive. What makes you think Taylor is suddenly going to go after Pavlik considering how sh*t Taylor has performed against little men with no power like Cory Spinks and Kassim Ouma?
Please! There's nothing in Taylor that can lead anybody to believe he's going to be any different this time around. Same old sh*t. Pavlik by KO again.

 

dsimon writes:

I never said I thought Taylor would win. I was merely pointing out that it is possible given the first fight.

 

But remember....

Taylor took right hands from Pavlik all night long and was only seriously hurt ONCE and that was at the end of the 7th. Of course he was trapped against the ropes and the ref didn't even let him fall before stopping it (Good stoppage)...but he wasn't dominated and hurt ever round. In fact I actually had him a round ahead at the time of the stoppage.

So Taylor may not be AS defensive as I had previously thought he would be when I considered the rematch.

 

I was only messing with ya padna!

 

But also take into account, this won't mentally be the same Jermain Taylor when he steps into the ring with Pavlik a second time. The first time, Taylor had NEVER been stopped. Now heading into a rematch, he'll be facing a man who he knows has the power to take him out. Those punches will feel harder than before because he's mentally discouraged and has less faith in his chin.
He's going to try and sugarcoat it to sell the rematch but deep down it will be a major problem for him. He won't only be fighting Pavlik, he'll be fighting his inner demons whereas Pavlik will be even more confident than the first fight.
Look at Jeff Lacy. He's got a lot to overcome after that brutal beatdown by Calzaghe. Do you think Lacy will ever be as confident as he was prior to that loss? Do you think opposition will fear him just as much? No, he's got a major hurdle to overcome mentally, much like Taylor.
If a fighter loses faith in himself and his abilities, it's one step toward the end.
I've seen nothing in Jermain Taylor that tells me that he's anywhere near the gritty determined warrior that people want him to be.
He will disappoint you again, Sly.

 

I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's also worth noting that Lewis was 12-13 years into his career when he fought Rahman. A better comparison would be his KO loss to McCall - in which Lennox did in fact clean house, regroup and rebuild before attempting to avenge the loss, well over two years later and when McCall was basically a shell of his former self (and never much to begin with)

The biggest difference would be that Lennox brought Steward into the fold, whereas Jermain is showing him the door. ::

But I don't disagree with the notion that Jermain might've been better served to take a confidence-booster type fight before going for the rematch. Tune-up is often overused in boxing, because you're right, there's no need for a "tune-up" 5-6 months after you're last fight.

This part, I actually disagree with. I have mad respect for Jermain for his agreeing to an immediate rematch. But I also feel like he/DiBella agreed to it almost off of a dare. Their hand was being forced a bit, as Arum's plan in the event of an immediate rematch not happening was for Pavlik to face Duddy - the ONE guy DiBella was giving a hard look as far as comeback opponents for Taylor. When they were instead offered Sergio Mora, that's when Jermain and Lou called Top Rank's bluff and agreed to the rematch.

But I don't think much would've been said if Taylor instead took on a Top 10-15 type contender in his first fight at super middleweight, as well as his first fight coming off of a devastating knockout loss.

 

I cannot disagree with anything you've just posted. makes complete sense and it IS the logical position.

 

Taylor has a better chance then most will give him cedit for.

 

False hope. But if it helps put some money in his pocket before his retirement, then fine.:clap:

 

He doesn't have Steward in his corner. Sure i think JT will get knocked out again but Jermain will be competitive right until the KO.

 

Taylor's Round 2 Success was a Result of Pavlik's ARROGANCE...

Taylor Caught him w/a Good Shot & just as Pavlik was in the Process of DROPPING his Hands & Sticking Out his Tongue, Taylor CLOCKED Him Again...

Pavlik will Play CLOSER to the Vest in the RE, Giving Taylor Virtually NO Chance to Hurt him:nono: ...

Taylor Gets KO'ed EARLIER in the RE...4th or 5th Round...The Guy ISN'T Skilled, Schooled or Athletic Enough to Make the Necessary ADJUSTMENTS...

REED Admires his GUTS for Wanting an IMMEDIATE RE, but 1nce He Starts EATING those 1-2's Again, Taylor's Gonna have FLASHBACKS...

REED just Hopes Taylors Wife, Mother & Sisters AIN'T Sitting Ringside...


REED

 

What's your opinion on this Reed?

 

agREED

 

Nah, Taylor ISN'T:nono: ...

Like REED Said Months Ago, Taylor is Probably The LEAST Athletic "Elite" Black Fighter in Boxing...

He's got DECENT Handspeed, but PISS POOR Footwork & Balance...He DOESN'T Feint, ISN'T Accurate...

"Athletic" Fighters AIN'T as ROBOTIC as Taylor is...

REED

 

agREED. Taylor didn't show any reasons to think he might win a rematch.

 

Watch Round 2.

 

Everything about this post is 100% accurate... :bears:

It is incredibly rare for a fighter to come back from a brutal beatdown/KO loss and avenge that loss.

So much of a fighter's make up comes from their mental makeup- when you are unbeaten, you feel invincible and fight without fear or compunction. Once a fighter loses that and becomes fearful, the fighter rarely is the same again. The list of fighters who never recover from a first, vicious KO is as long as my arm.

Pavlik KO 4 opcorn:

MTF

 

They have had 1 loss each. Why would the loser leave town. 2 loses doesn't mean you should retire.

 

Isn't Lacy fighting Manfredo Jr.? As bad as that sounds it could be a very entertaining fight:dunno:

Pavlik by tko round 4.

 

Taylor only caught his man when Pavlik started arseing around for the cameras.

This is no example, really... :dunno: