dsimon writes: The first Knockdown was from an illegal blow to the back of the head. The second could easily have been a 10-9 round because Nando dominated the rest of the round. I counted maybe a handful of clean shots landed by Mayorga the rest of the fight. Nando when he threw caught Mayorga virtually every time Vargas won almost every round of the fight with clean punching. One could maybe give Mayorga 5 rounds at most. Despite the two knockdowns I think Nando won the fight. Opinions?
put down the crack pipe. Mayorga beat him simply by being more active. The two knockdwons were legit. Vargas was successfull on some rounds counter punching. I thought that he would come stronger late buy he didn't. he just didn't have the stamina, chin, nor the legs. He did nothing to close the fight in the last two rounds. Even Vargas gave Mayorga props for being the better man. :dunno:
not really I thought Pacquiao beat him soundly. I critized Barrera for fighting like a punk. you have confused me with somebody else.:dunno:
dsimon, you were wrong! Accept it! :tease: I told you that whenever someone has the same pick as Double L they have to be worried. ::
When it was first announced i thought it would be pretty exciting fight although meaningless. After it was postponed and the weight limit was annnounced at 164 i had less hopes of a good match. It wasn't a FOTY type candidate but i thought it was a pretty good scrap all things considered. Mayorga won the fight clearly. Two knockdowns plus more activity. There were a few rounds where Vargas had Evander Holyfield type punch stats. I'm glad Mayorga won, if he gets down in weight i still think he can make for a few more entertaining fights.
dsimon writes: I accept people's opinion. Truth is I like Mayorga when he isn't a scared feminine man. anyhow I just don't think he won that fight. I am going to watch it again. Say what you want about Vargas I mean his legs were for shit and man he is shot at 29.... scary shot, but he landed the cleaner punches and hit Mayorga with more punches than he got hit with. Watch the fight again if you don't believe it. There were very few rounds I saw where Mayorga hit Vargus with more punches than he got hit with. And the 11th round was a 10-9 Vargus was winning that round big before the knockdown. And last I checked hitting to the back of the head was illegal.:dunno: And Barrera did hang close to Pac man. He exchanged with him more than a few times. I do think that fight was closer than people think... though obviously Pac man won. One could argue that Mayorga hoit with the bigger punches but a lot of that was ineffective aggression and a lot of those punches hit Nando ont he gloves.
I thought it was a FOTY candidate. For pure excitment and drama, I thought it could match just about any fight this year... it just wasn't as important or meaningful. And although I agreed Mayorga won, it was a damn close fight. On my card, Mayorga needed BOTH of the last two rounds to pull it out.
dsimon writes: Well if nobody else saw it my way then I must be wrong:dunno:. I would implore a few people here to watch it again though just for shits and giggles and comment on what you see the second time. maybe Latin King is right and I took too many hits of of Osfan's crack pipe after all!:: I don't usually score fights but I noticed how biased the announcers were and actually did do a crude scoring of this fight... in many rounds I had Vargus hitting Mayorga consecutively like 10 times with no answered punches that landed. Funny thing is my buddy had the same experience but we could have been overcompensating because we both definitley felt like the Showtime guys were riding Mayo's groin.
I do agree with you that Showtime gave Mayorga too much credit for fighting a "controled fight' When it was VArgas who allowed him to fight like that. I know the moment Mayorga fights an elite fighter he will get frustrated and will try other crazy stuff because just boxing won't work. Either way going into the fight I thought VArgas had more advantages like the weight, skill, and motivation since he was going to retire. Mayorga overcame all that and beat him in a pretty good fight. :cheer:
I watched the fights a few minutes ago (someone was kind enough to e-mail it to me via YouSendIt). I saw the punch you're talking about in the first round, but it didn't produce the knockdown, it came well before it. There's no question that Round 1 was 10-8, though I can see the argument for scoring Round 11, 10-9. I have more opinions on the fight, but I get the sense that this thread's opinions are reserved for scorecards. With that - you'd have to give Fernando the benefit of the doubt in every close round to come up with a draw. There's no way he won the fight, or even more rounds. (as he needed to win 7 just to earn a draw). Mayorga's style is ugly and primitive, but Fernando looked flat out shot, and I can't believe that so many people are suggesting otherwise.
BTW, the version I saw had Col. Bob Sheridan and Dave Bontempo announcing, so I'm guessing it was the International feed. In that fight, as well as the Cintron-Feliciano fight - Col. would give almost every close round to whoever was losing on his card at that point. Feliciano got the benefit of the doubt in every close round, whereas Col. gave Vargas more credit than was deserved at time, but would hold back just enough to remind everyone that this was a DKP broadcast and Mayorga is a DKP fighter ::
For Vargas to win the fight he had to 8 rounds because with the 2 KD's Mayo got 2 extra points. Vargas didn't win 8 rounds. Just for a draw he needed to win 7 rounds. Again i don't see 7 rounds Vargas won in the fight.
dsimon writes: Probably so. I HATE to score a match when I watch it. I much prefer to root for a guy and look at the fight more generally than simply an aggregate of punches thrown.
AND you made the Vargus fuckup again... that bothers me as much as all people writing Mosely... :doh: Fuck you dyslexics! :flip: ::
Mr. Gerardo Gonzalez....you really think in terms of drama this stands up to the likes of Pavlik-Taylor, Vazquez-Marquez II, hell - even Calzaghe-Kessler? I dunno. It was entertaining and the CROWD made it fun...but to me it was no more than a good, fun fight. Peace.
Agreed - Vargas looked absolutely shot. Ancient. And if you look carefully, that's about the way he looked in Mosley-Vargas II. He's done. Peace.
I know you do, because we've had this discussion before.... But there is no better barometer for who truly won a fight than to score it round by round just like the judges - you assign each round a score, and you "hand it in" (i.e.; you can't change your score later on). You'd be surprised how many fights "appear" to be one way...but come out very different when you actually SCORE them ROUND BY ROUND. That's what alot of people don't seem to get about boxing matches. Peace.
Funny thing is, Vargas thick torso, and slow legs, but good timing nontheless reminded me of the second reincarnation of Tony Ayala. And in his second career, Ayala was in his 40's! That shows how prematurely aged and shot Vargas has become. Still, win or lose, I thought he looked like the better fighter in there. As far as the first knock-down, if you watch closely, it was primarily due to an upper-cut to Vargas' stomach, not a shot on the back of his head. Also, the second knock-down was completely due to Vargas' stupidly backing up with his feet squared up - not because he was hurt by the shot. So I "could" see a 10-9 round for Mayorga. But if you consider that Vargas was winning that round up until the last minuite, before suffering the unfortunate knock-down, and bear in mind that his approach in the 12th would've been much less knock-out focus, with Mayorga playing less keep away, you can't deny that it was just a bad break on Vargas' part to have been knocked down the way he was in the 11th - not a sigh of Mayorga's superiority. Also, Vargas showed, despite his thick physique, that his conditioning was far better than Mayorga's. IMO, Vargas didn't jab enough, and didn't get close enough, and consequently, wasn't allowed to use his straight right hand, his most effective punch in the fight, nearly enough. Also, he was looping his left-hook over the top too much and Mayorga for the most part was able to take it on the side (not the chin) if at all, as a result. Only when Vargas turned it under did he start to do damage. I don't know. For a 40 year old's final fight, it would've been impressive. For a guy who's 29, it was a bit tragic to see how far he's declined. In his prime (pre-Tito), he would've destroyed Mayorga and I doubt there's anyone who would dispute that. Still, exciting fight. And coupled with the Cintron fight, well worth my money, IMO. Little disappointed in Marrotta, as he's clearly become a DK shill with comments to the effect that this was the best Mayorga we've seen in years. I thought that was B.S. crap designed to reintroduce Mayorga as a major factor in the game, when we all know that simply isn't the case, especially at 160 or above.
I also thought that Vargas won the fight, but ONLY if your score is premised on the knockdowns being erroneous and you refuse to score them. If you count the knockdowns in your score, I don't see any way you can have Vargas winning the fight. In fact, you could make a case for either knockdown that had it not occurred Vargas may have won the round 10-9 instead of losing it 10-8, which is a giant point swing. So without taking 8 of the 10 rounds where there was no knockdown, Vargas could not have come out winning that fight. I personally felt Vargas landed more clean, effective blows throughout the fight such that he won most of the rounds. I think he easily won 7 rounds, and I'd have to re-watch it, but I may have awarded him the rounds with the knockdowns if he didn't stumble around like a drunk. Mayorga worked hard enough to win rounds due to simply workrate, as he flailed wildly most of the time, and to his credit he actually connected here and there. In the end Vargas did a fine job considering his shot-ness and Mayorga gets away with one and gets to get beat next time he fights.
Just watched this, it is shocking how shot Vargas appeared in the opening rounds, how fat he was, and generally how old he appeared at the end of the fight...incredible to believe that he is only 29
The only thing you can really say is he lasted a lot longer than David Reid after a similar beating from Felix Trinidad. Vargas looked like used fighter against Wilfredo Rivera and Shibata Flores...and the Tony Marshall fight really messed him up. He's squeezed about as many big fights out of his young body as he could the last few years...hopefully he stays retired and contents himself to stay involved in boxing in other ways.
