old timers overrated out of love....

let's face it - lots of these old timers were lovable characters. but great fighters?

Dempsey
J. Johnson
R. Marciano

who else?

 

Duran.

For him to be as good as he tends to get rated, he would have had to die before 11/25/80.

 

who the hell ever loved duran?

 

I agree on Duran. People tend to forgive his face first nose dive and his quitting.

 

They were very good / great fighters for their own time and that is all that you can demand from an athlete. Of course they would get clowned these days as would all the great athletes of that time

 

Jose Luis Castillo. Barely a clubfighter who won tons of disputed decisions.

 

i love the fact that everything i say manages to put you on the defensive. it's so empowering.

 

I disagree

Dempsey & Marciano would be awsome Cruisers or possibly even Lt Heavies & Johnson , well you have bums running around with titles.
To think he couldn't beat one of them is pure ingnorance ...

 

It's true that Jack Johnson was loved during his time.

Great thread.

 

Larry Donald would out-box Jack Johnson. And probably without too much trouble. He could leave his right hand at home like he always does and still win a decision. This is my opinion. Sorry if you think it's ignorant.

 

Well, The Legend was version 2.0 of Muhammad Ali so he probably could've beaten Liston, Frazier, Foreman, et al.

 

how is he an old timer?

 

he isn't. but everything i say puts Rubio on the defensive and when he's on the defensive his only recourse is to insult the fighters he knows I'm a fan of. it's comical how sensitive he is. he turns into a girly bitch anytime someone says something he doesn't agree with.

 

I completely agree. Donald's techniques were much better than anything Johnson ever saw (even though he was a defensive wizard of his time) plus Donald was bigger than him and Johnson was known as a "giant"

 

NICE Sig, UGO...


REED:bears:

 

I am never going to change it

 

Sam Langford was more talented defensively than Larry Donald. Also, Johnson made a career out of defending his title against fighters who were larger than he was.

 

Not to mention that they were often near-novices

 

Why, because Boxrec doesn't have complete records of fighters from 100 years ago? Do your research, kiddo.

 

I didn't check their records but I have done my studying. Johnson avoided the best challengers and you know that.

But please tell me: where did you see Sam Langford's fights

 

Only when he was champion. Before he won the belt, he cleaned out the heavyweight division.

On video, of course. :doh:

 

Sure. Would you like to trade them with my DVDs of Sullivan-Ryan and Sullivan-Corbett. They are on color

 

:: :doh:

 

dsimon writes:

The same ignoramouis starts the same stupid thread.

 

Those don't exist. Video of Langford does, and it's easy to find. Now stop being a douche about it. You got owned.

 

Sure. Since it says it The Ring that Langford was a defensive wizard, youd'd better not to believe your own eyes. You really think this is the best fighting you have ever seen? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU90MwTU7yc

 

You think Larry Donald was? Completely avoiding punches and landing punches is one thing. Completely avoiding punches and running for your life without landing anything of consequence isn't having a great defense; it's being a pussy. Whitaker, Pep, Mayweather... Those guys were great defensive fighters because they still fought while defending punches. Larry Donald and Hector Camacho? No. You can nuthug those guys all you want, but you can't tell me that Larry Donald would give Jack Johnson any serious problem. He was NOT good.

 

When it wins you boxing matches, it makes you a good and succesful boxer, if you like the style or not. Donald was nothing exceptional but he was a legit top-10 contender, which Johnson with his out-dated techniques and small size would not be these days

 

dsimon writes:

Actually Rubio just gave you a great description of something that you have to know to look for when looking at a tape. Your a teacher... let me ask you this... if I tell you to look in a microspcope and show me cells and yu don't know what to look for how succesful will you be showing me a cell?

The point is that its not enough to look at a tape. You have to know what to look for. The difference between a counter puncher, a real one, and a guy who just fights to survive is measured in the smallest quantities imaginable. No matter how out of shape Toney is he counters when he fights. He avoids to attack, not simply to evade. Camacho is a great example of a guy who looks like a million bucks unless you know to look and see that he never had the skill to counter a guy like Toney, or Whitaker could.

Donaldson is another example of a guy who can run for 12 rounds and use some basic boxing ability... but it is not the same as settingf a guy up and making him pay... through defensive tactics that enable one to make the other guy really think about throwing another punch because they just got hit in the head as they were just fully extended with their own punch.

Its a shame that some otherwise smart guys can be such imbeciles when it comes to understanding subltelty in the fight game... it is often what seperated the great ones from the compitant ones.