Is Pavlik the next Gerald McClellan?

Obviously, they're both tall, rangy middleweights with big right hands.

But also, they were both similarly limited and unimaginative in their attacks.

Both were basically just "jab-cross" guys... neither really were comfortable/effective using their hooks, going to the body, or punching at different ranges.

At this point, both men made themselves off two big ones over one big name (for McClellan, it was Julian Jackson).

One big difference is that McClellan seemed to be more of a frontrunner, a big part of his game seemed to be blowing guys out early... whereas Pavlik showed he can keep up a consistent and steady attack over a whole fight.

I'm interested to see how Pavlik handles other good fighers with different styles. Is it possible he can be outmaneuvered/outslicked by a real world class boxer? Or, what happens in a fight where he's the one who's forced to back up? :dunno:

Of course, it might be possible the middleweight division is so weak now (now that Taylor, Hopkins, and Winky are apparently all gone) that we might not get the opportunity to find out...

 

McClellan hit harder and was better IMO than Kelly, though there is no doubt that they both have very similar styles.

As I have said elsewhere, there are two ways to beat Pavlik. The first is as you suggest to simply out slick/out box the guy. Let Pavlik come in and move to make him miss, create angles and counter punch him to death as he comes in. The second is to simply out-gun him.

Interestingly, these appear to have been the two ways to beat Gerald too. Benn simply out gunned him in the end, and IMO RJJ would have made Gerald look a bit silly.

Style-wise, I think the comparison is valid, though I would say that I still think G-Man was a better MW than Kelly, though obviously this might change as Kelly's career moves on from Taylor.

 

Does Pavlik fight dogs?:dunno:

 

Is Pavlik deaf, dumb and blind following a severe beating by the UK's very own 'Dark Destroyer'?

 

G-man was more talented, and Gerald knocked MOST his opponents out with his left hook to the body.

Pavlik seems more patient and dedicated to the jab. Pavlik also has a better defense than G-man, but McClellan had a much better chin. Both are big punchers, but Pavlik is more of a thudding puncher who wears you down. G-man had explosive power that could take you out quickly.

Pavlik is overall more skilled, though if you ask who woulda won head-to-head between them.... I think Gerald woulda fucked Kelly up badly.

 

There are some similarities but I really disagree about the bodypunching.

Gerald McClellan was a vicious bodypuncher.

 

I agree with the rest of this post, but am not sure about this. G-Man was as skilled as Kelly IMO, at least. His body punching especially was evil. And he had a great chin, big heart and a horrible left hook. Pavlik is very sound, but quite basic (thought he best at 160 right now, no doubt...)

 

Pavlik would get butchered by McClellan in my opinion.

 

Yup, inside of six rounds IMO :clap:

 

Pavlik is the next Mayorga.

 

McClellan went for the ko a lot harder than Pavlik so he was more fun to watch.

Not sure if McClellan hit harder. I've seen Kelly ktfo of too many people to be sure. It's sort of like comparing Tyson to Lennox. Who hit harder? At one time everyone would have said Tyson, but now it's about 50/50.

Except for height and punching power, they aren't very similar fighters so to answer the OP...No.

 

Not sure I can agree with all the people picking G-Man over Kelly.

First, people seem to overlook when rating G-Man's power that many of his best KOs (ie: Jackson, Mugabi) came against guys that had already been KO'd or shown iffy chins.

Secondly, Julian Jackson was able to get to him quite a bit in their first fight, and that's despite being outreached and a little bit past his prime.

Nigel Benn, who was also thought to be past his prime and also always had a shaky chin, was able to stand toe-to-toe with him all the way, and even beat him in the end (whatever the circumstances).

And as someone pointed out, Pavlik may actually have the better defense and technical skill than McClellan.

I think if Pavlik can survive an early blitz from McClellan, he can eventually grind him down, and maybe even stop him late. I think Pavlik might have an easier time with McClellan than he did with Taylor, who showed more all-around skill and punch variety last time out than McClellan ever had.

 

Nah... a better case could be made that Pavlik is the next Margarito.

MIRANDA is the next Mayorga. Or he WAS, anyway, until he ran into Pavlik... which means he WON'T be the next Mayorga... and maybe never really was the next Mayorga... but he COULD'VE been the next Mayorga... or at least, he LOOKED like he could've been the next Mayorga...

Then again, he did score a very Mayorga-like KO last time out on ESPN... but actually, that KO looked more like a Julian Jackson KO than a Mayorga KO, so maybe Miranda is not really the next Mayorga but really the next Julian Jackson...

Damn, this thread's getting confusing... :doh:

 

::

So who's the next Williams opcorn:

 

One thing about McClellan, back then Steward was having fighters dry out bad the day before a fight. This wasn't too long after we started having the weigh in the day before the fight. By fight time the fight came around the fighters(there were several) were rehydrated and weighed way over the limit. McClellan in his title fights at middleweight would weight 170+lbs by fight time.
It is one of the arguments against the day before the fights weigh-ins.

 

Jesus Christ! Its an insult to compare Kelly to either one of those bums!

Pavlik is far and away a much better fighter than Margarita, and the Nicaraguan punching bag!

What disrespect to mention Kelly in the same sentence w/those two skilless frauds.

And an even BIGGER insult is comparing that trash ass Miranda to one of the biggest P4P punchers in history in Jackson.

Jackson would've knocked Miranda back to his homeless childhood!

This is the crappiest post Ive ever seen from you, and thats saying alot cause you have many of them.

 

I agree. Especially Marge, for fuck's sake, I can't believe some people still think he's some kind of great fighter.

I swear I'd give even this version of Mayo a good chance of bashing marge.

The notion that Pavlik is the "next Margarito" is so utterly preposterous, I can't believe it was even suggested ::

In his last 3 fights, he's accomplished more than Margarito ever has, and is already on his way to being a big star.

 

I disagree, though much of what you say is logical enough. I just don't think that Pavlik is 'skilled' enough to expose McClellan. He relies very, very heavily on the sharp left to stun/range find and then he throws the right. Ordinarily, this is enough.

McClellan was, in many respects, equally as primitive, but he had a GREAT chin. Benn couldn't knock him down despite hitting him almost for fun between Rounds 2-8 of their fight. As you rightly note, Julian Jackson (who was a lot more skilled than given credit for) also landed some HUGE bombs in their first fight and couldn't KD Gerald. I'm in no way, shape or form convinced that Kelly hits harder than either Benn or (definitely) Jackson. If McClellan can walk through these guys shots, I can't see why he would struggle to take Kelly's.

Further, I think that maybe Pavlik is a leetle 'chinny' (though I appear to be in the minority on this). Zuniga hurt Pavlik early doors when they fought, and Taylor had him on queer street in the second round of their first fight (albeit Kelly was showboating and paid the price). I'm not saying that Pavlik is glass jawed or anything like that, but he CAN be hit because his 'come forward' style makes him hittable, and if Zuniga and Taylor can drop/hurt Kelly, then Gerald would have stretched him, IMO. Could you imagine McClellan NOT finishing Kelly like Taylor did in the first fight?

Also, I see no reason why stamina would be an issue in this one- you talk about Kelly 'grinding G-Man down' late, but I can't see any reason to expect Gerald to slow down. Right before the injury against Benn, he KD Benn (Round 8) and had Benn practically out on his feet despite Nigel (A noted puncher, though diminished a little at SMW) having smashed right hand after right hand on McClellan's chin for 6 straight rounds. Gerald not only had a great CHIN, but he also had GREAT heart and no noted stamina problems, so far as I am aware. I see no reason for him to 'slow down' late on.

IMO, both men would have come to FIGHT, but although Kelly may have a slightly better defence and be more technically proficient than Gerald was, he would have been out-gunned in much the same way that Pavlik out-gunned Miranda and Taylor was first time out. This fight would have been a WAR, and with a better chin and more power, I would pick McClellan every time to prevail.

MTF opcorn:

(Shouldn't this be in MM ::)

 

Harsh but fair... ::

 

Its an absoloute outrage!

Call me when Margarita learns how to throw a decent jab. And call when Margarita learns how to punch straight, and how to block a punch with his gloves as opposed to his face. Also call me when Margarita grows a brain.

Comparing Pavlik to Paul Williams' son is quite possibly the dumbest comparison ever made.

 

::

 

An inability to recognize JOKES is alive and well at fightbeat. :nono:

Oh, and the owner one of the quote in my sig should be the last person to pass judgment on ANYONE's quotes.

 

No question that Kelly doesn't hit as hard as Jackson.

At middleweight, I don't believe he hit harder than Benn... but as you pointed out, Benn's firepower seemed to be diminished at 168, so it's possible his power is comparable to Benn's at 168.

Now, I'll also go a step further and say that I think Miranda and maybe even Taylor hit harder than Pavlik.

But that's exactly why I think that Pavlik CAN beat G-Man... because he HAS taken the measure of harder punchers and beaten them with his technical skill and pressure.

I don't believe this is a fight that will be decided by power and chin... I believe it's a fight that will be decided by persistence and staying power. G-Man's greater power gives him a shot at an early KO, but if he doesn't get that then I'd favor Pavlik all the way.

Yes, Jackson was technically proficient... but unlike Pavlik, he was outreached, and was also slowing down by the time he fought G-Man IMO.

Even if Pavlik's chin isn't pure iron (Bronco McKart got a flash KD over him too, something many people don't seem to know), his chin isn't nearly as questionable as Jackson's and especially Benn's were... and yet Benn was able to get through G-Man's firepower and get to him all night long.

"Could you imagine McClellan NOT finishing Kelly like Taylor did in the first fight?" Yes, I actually can. He failed to finish Benn with TWO big chances (didn't he knock him out of the ring BOTH times?), and Benn was always FAR more chinnier than Pavlik.

Also, it should be remembered that Taylor being a more skilled and well-rounded fighter enables him to set up his big punches in a way that McClellan couldn't, which means he actually may have had a better chance at hurting Pavlik even though he doesn't hit as hard. It's the same reason Miranda was never able to hurt Pavlik either, even though he hits harder than Taylor too.


And yes, this should be in MM... but everyone's already given their opinions, so why bother? :dunno: ::

 

I've heard so many people say Pavlik has little skill etc... Pavlik is extremely skilled and goes to the body great. He really is the total package. I think he would beat Gerald just a feeling I guess cause they matchup so well.

 

There ain't no fucking way to think that Taylor hits harder than Pavlik unless the only fight you've ever seen of either of them was the rematch. Pavlik might be the hardest puncher in the sport. Taylor wouldn't make a top 100 p4p puncher list.

 

"Nevertheless, McKart, Monroe, Michigan, was still a very game fighter and with 2:22 to go in the 4th, he caught the off balance Pavlik, Youngstown, Ohio, with a sharp right hook to the body, followed by another hook to the shoulder. Remarkably, the punch momentary stunned Pavlik and both of his gloves grazed the canvas. Referee Gonzalez corrected ruled a knockdown and issued a mandatory eight-count to the somewhat embarrassed Pavlik." http://www.boxingtimes.com/analyses/2006/060727pavlik_mckart.html

This has what to do with Pavlik's chin again?

 

I take it you didn't actually SEE the fight, then?

 

What I didn't remember is McKart testing Pavlik's chin. Because it didn't happen.

 

Who says Taylor is more skilled and well rounded than Gerald? Taylor has a better jab than G-man perhaps, but G-man was a much straighter and more accurate puncher than Jermain, with more of an arsenal.

And IMO Miranda's power isnt at all on the level of Gerald, nor is Miranda as physically strong or overall as gifted as G-man was.