is Lewis a "top 5 hw of all time" ??

Seriously, I have always struggled with placing Lennox Lewis in the Top 10 All-Time. He certainly has the era domination, big wins and other stats necessary to lay claim to a top 10 spot. Unfortunately I always get stopped by one glaring detail.

The two stoppages against journeyman fighters..

There isn't another guy on my Top 10 HW list that lost by KO twice in title defenses to slugs before they were past their prime.

Think about it. Would Ali, Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, etc really be regarded in the same light had they been starched during their title reign(s) by guys that were histortically viewed as virtual nobodies? Probably not.

No matter how impressive Lewis was; no matter how much he dominated his era; you just can't let the knockout loses to McCall and Rahman not limit his All-Time standing.

 

thats fucking ridiculous.

By that same standard, Joe Louis should be regarded as an absolute bum for being put on his ass by fighters who'd lose to Butterbean in 90 seconds.

By that same standard, Ali should be hounded for wanting to quit in the corner against Cooper, and getting gift after gift over mediocre HW's in the 70's.

By that same standard, Mike Tyson shouldn't be anywhere near the top 10 for his KO losses to bums like Buster Douglas

By that same standard, Evander Holyfield shouldn't be ranked high for his KO losses to middle of the road/nobody HW's like Riddick Bowe and James Toney.


You can tear anyone's resume apart if ur a blind jackass about it. Fact is Lennox Lewis got KTFO once, and avenged it immediately in the midst of dominating the division for nearly 10 years

 

The difference is that Ali and Louis DID NOT lose in the circumstance you mentioned. That is where the line becomes divided between the greats and those on the fringes.

As I said, had Ali been stopped by Cooper or if Louis lost to any of the 'bums of the month', then they would both fall outside the Top 10 as well.

Can you disagree? Answer the question honestly. If Joe Louis had his reign interupted by getting starched by Tony Gallento, would he still be regarded in the same light?

You can answer how you like, but the answer is NO. The same logic HAS to apply to Lewis.


*** And by the way, your attempt at revising history didn't slip past. Lewis was stopped by McCall. He stumbled toward the ref after getting back on his feet and it was stopped. Period.***

 

Head to Head, Lennox Lewis is DEFINITELY Top 5...There AREN'T 5 All-Time Great Heavy's who REED would Pick to BEAT Lennox Lewis:nono: ...

But when U Look @ Resume, Accomplishments, Historical RELEVANCE, etc., Lennox SLIDES Down that List a Bit...

REED has No Problem Putting Lennox N the All-Time Top 10, but Top 5 Might B Stretching it...


REED

 

Wlad has already lost to more "bums" than Lewis did, and avenged only one of them, after the guy suffered a detached retina and couldn't get licensed in the states.

Lewis also beat better opposition.

Wlad has a way to go before reaching Lewis's achievements.

 

i dare u guys to name 5 that should be ranked higher than lennox

 

Top five? No way.

 

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Marciano
Johnson


That list is in no particular order and doesn't include everyone I rank higher.

 

with Marciano's opposition and the perspectous of considering match-ups when doing these rankings, there is no chance he's higher than Lennox

 

Lewis would be charged for attempted murder if he fought Louis and Marciano.

 

Wait a second... Marciano beat every person that challenged him for the crown. He held it for 3 years and knocked off 7 guys in title fights. In other words, he ruled the division WITHOUT question. He didn't need rematches to prove he was better than McCall or Rahman.

Unlike Lennox Lewis, you didn't see Marciano getting knocked the fuck out by the likes of Roland LaStarza or Don Cockell to interupt his title reign.

Imagine if Marciano got knocked out twice by bums and I came on here still trying to make a case for his inclusion in the Top 5 HW All-Time. Nonsense.

 

Personally I think Lewis would beat them all head-to-head, but that's not the point.

 

If you think Don Cockell and Hasim Rahman are on the same level, you are beyond help.

The guys that beat Lennox, would arguably beat Marciano, or any of the guys on his resume.

Unlike Lennox, Marciano NEVER beat a good fighter his size that was even close to their own "prime". He feasted on old blown up lt. heavy's and then retired before having anwhere near the kind of reign Lewis had.

 

that is the point, rankings aren't just what you did against who you faced, is looking at overall skillsets throughout generations

The fact that Lennox would kill Marciano or Louis in a head to head has to be taken into account for these kinds of rankings

 

i think Tony Tubbs outboxes Marciano. Could I rate him higher?

 

You don't have the definite answer, so quit trying to act as if you do. Lists are purelyn subjective, as are opinions on who wins what. What you think happens, is just that, its what you think. Similarly as pointless as P4P lists, because idiots get on their pom-pom's out and lose themselve sin their own fantasy land.

What isn't opinion, is fact. And fact, is Lewis on his back, twice, against cans, in title defenses that he was heavily favoured in. Thats fact, and that counts...regardless of how much you'd like to gloss it over.

 

does tubbs have the reign as HW champ that Lennox has?

Its not just on head to head, but Lennox dominated the division for years, immediately avenged his fluke losses, and had wins over several really good HW's

 

Fluke losses? Again, purely opinion. Some will argue that something happening twice, ain't fluke.

And immediately? I didn't know Lewis went right back after McCall.

 

re-REED REED's Post...

"Greatness" Isn't ALL about Who Wins Head to Head...Like REED Said, Lennox Lewis is EASILY Top 5, if we're Talking Head to Head Matchups...

But N Terms of Resume, Accomplishments & Historical RELEVANCE, he's NOT...


REED:nono:

 

besides Ali there's hardly anyone whose got a "clearly" better resume than Lennox

 

:laughing:

"Bigger is better"

 

::

REED KNOWS Kirk Johnson would OutBox Marciano...Where does He Rank???...

REED:cheer:

 

But there's 5 or More who CLEARLY have More Accomplishments & MORE Relevance, Historically...


REED

 

Well then we just have to disagree because I think mythical All-Time ranking should be based on era competition only.

The fact that Earnie Shavers could beat Marciano head-to-head doesn't make Shavers higher on the All-Time list.

 

Relevance?...perhaps.

But being fortunate to compete in the era you do, for me, isn't nearly as important as individual skillsets/resume/dominance

 

you lemmon dick suckers seem to think McCall Stretched him and then he fought him 2 weeks later.. it didn't happen like that

 

my issue with that fight is very simple.

That same stoppage that you holler about there, Ali would've been stopped in the first frazier fight, Holmes would've been stopped against Shavers, etc. if it was the same referee.

He wasn't remotely starched, he was caught, hurt, and got up. That call to end the fight was premature, and as I say, if he had been in some other era it would've never been stopped there

 

Things HAPPEN for a Reason...& Guys R BORN Into Various Era's for a REASON...

Obviously, Ali NEVER Would've Become WHO he was had he Fought N Joe Louis' Era...He was MUCH More DEFIANT, like Jack Johnson, & History as we Know it Would B COMPLETELY ALTERED, had Ali Been the 2nd Brother to Win the Heavyweight Title....

Joe Louis NEVER would've Become WHO he Was, Fighting N Ali's Era...He Wasn't Articulate or Boisterous Enough...

As Such, Imagine Guys w/DRAB Personalities like Larry Holmes or Lennox, Fighting During Ali or Tyson or Dempsey's Era???...

EVERY Fighter is FORTUNATE to B Born N the Era he's In...


REED