Don King negotiating Trinidad vs. Taylor

At 168? I disagree.

 

That is definitely what is going on here and it's not just REED. Tito is finished and fighting at 168 against either Taylor or Pavlik is a bad move.

 

Kelly Pavlik would most assuradly get KOed by Tito. Because Kelly Pavlik is a mindless slugger like Cheato. :doh:

 

.....

Nobody slugs with Tito and wins with Tito. probably because when he got hit by a straight right hand against Pavlik he would get on his bike. :laughing:

 

Hey I was a big Tito fan but you guys really think him and pavilk will go toe to toe and he'll KO pavlik? !!

I'm sad to say at this point Pavlik would have tito leaving on a stretcher

 

I agree, History shows that no-one has been able to go toe to toe with Trinidad and win.:bears:

 

Anyone who really, seriously believes Tito would beat Pavlik knows nothing about boxing. Sweet fuck all.

 

Not only that but Pavlik WOULD slug it out with Tito and win. I have no doubt in my mind at all.

I still say Tito should be fighting Miranda. I'm not even sure Tito beats Miranda and Miranda would certainly trade with Tito.

 

Tito didn't carry his power going up, as evidenced in the Jones fight, but Taylor isn't granite-chinned either.

 

I think Pavlik hits harder than Tito though.

 

That's a fact

pavlik is a natural 160 lbs monster, whereas Tito is a blown up welterweight who started at 140 lbs.

 

Same here, absolutely no doubt.

Tito had a lot of power at 147, but at 160 I think Taylor hits a bit harder, and Miranda definitely does.

If Pavlik can stand there and outslug a big, powerful middleweight like Miranda, he'd do the same to tito with ease.

Tito would be horribly overmatched and outgunned. A porky career welterweight in his 30's going up against a prime 160 pound monster like pavlik?

It would be an ugly fight, tito would get battered senseless. The Pavlik would retire him for sure.

I'm no tito hater, but I would like to see the fight for the simply fact that to this day, tito somehow still gets obscenely overrated.

Which is the same reason I enjoyed seeing nard beat the crap out of him.

 

Can U @ Least ENTERTAIN the Idea of Tito BEATING Pavlik, Brother MWS???:dunno: ...

Who's HARDER to Hit???...PAST Prime Roy Jones/Winky Wright OR Kelly Pavlik/Jermain Taylor???...

HONESTLY....

If NATHAN Else, Tito Trinidad STILL Hits HARD (Sure, Roy TOYED w/him, but Tito STILL Kept Roy HONEST when Roy was Defensive), is ACCURATE, has GOOD Stamina & Heart...

Thus Far, Pavlik TAKES a Good Shot, but Tito would B Amongst THE BEST Punchers Kelly has EVER Faced...Combine Pavlik's Defensive FLAWS w/Tito's POWER & It's NOT So Hard to @ Least PONDER a Scenario where
Trinidad CAN win...

Put it This Way...REED Gives Tito a BETTER Chance of Beating Pavlik OR Taylor than Gomez has of Beating Cotto...


REED

 

So U Rate Jermain Taylor as a BETTER Middleweight "Puncher" than Tito Trinidad???


REED:dunno:

 

He Fought Roy @ 170 & Roy is a MUCH BETTER Defensive Fighter than Pavlik OR Taylor will EVER B...

Roy was Hit FLUSH Maybe 2 or 3 Times the ENTIRE Fight...REED Doesn't Think that's an ACCURATE Gauge of Tito's Power @ 168...


REED

 

A lot of Tito's best work was probably to the body.

 

Yep...

Even Against the SMALLER Tito, Roy was Cognizant of the HEAD Shots...He "Gave Away" his Body Throughout the Fight...


REED

 

Well I dunno. Tito has always been a good fighter, but I've always had a problem with just how highly regarded he has been.

Personally I think Cotto right now is better than Tito ever was. Cotto is a proven elite fighter, and Tito isn't.

And Pavlik is an elite fighter and a natural 160 pounder, not just a natural one, but a huge one.

Apart from Joppy, who fought like an absolute moron with his hands down, Tito's power hasn't looked devastating to me at 160+

I reckon he hits about as hard as a Zuniga or Zertuche at 160. A better fighter sure, but at this weight I say his power is no more than that.

Certainly I think pavlik would have taken harder shots from Taylor and Miranda than anything Tito would dish out.

If he had hurt hopkins and jones and wright, then I'd say maybe he has a chance, but the fact is, he's a career welterweight, and he's simply not a devastating puncher at this weight.

I think he'd have a very, very slim chance of beating pavlik. And only a slightly better chance of beating Taylor.

 

1. Absolutely not.

2. Tito isn't a proven elite fighter? You mean right NOW at 168 or 175, right?

3. I have a problem with this. Trinidad destroyed Joppy, period. And Joppy fought the same he always had and tried to even fight better. Don't tell me you are part of the clan that "qualifies" every win from a guy they don't like...especially Trinidad, who gets buttloads of that.

4. In terms of absolute power, maybe....but Trinidad is a much better puncher technically, and that makes a difference.

Peace.

 

REED, I'll have to disagree with you. Trinidad hit Roy flush more than 2 or 3 times, Roy didn't fought a defensive fight at all, he almost walked Tito down. He even had Tito going backwards. Roy is BIGGER than Trinidad, has been taking punches from LHW and even fought at HW, taking flush shots from Ruiz, which was enough for me to know beforehand that Trinidad would not hurt Roy.

 

I agree, RJ was walking TIto down. I can't remember Tito being walked down too many times before. RJ was just too big.

 

Roy Walked Tito Down AFTER the 1st 3-4 Rounds...But Initially, Roy was VERY Defensive...

& REED Saw Roy GUARDING the Headshots THROUGHOUT the Fight (Even N the Latter Rounds)...It's NOT like Roy Ever Pulled a Mayorga During that Bout...Roy was @ Least COGNIZANT of Tito's Power All the Way...

& Honestly, REED Saw MAYBE 1 or 2 Times where Tito Caught Roy FLUSH N his Grill....

N REED's Opinion, Tito Hits AS HARD as Jermain Taylor Does, AND he Delivers his Punches Better (if NOT as Swiftly)...Because of STYLES, Tito DEFINITELY has "A CHANCE", Against Pavlik OR Taylor...


REED

 

Wow.. I'm suprised at some here

I think Tito get's KTFO by Pavlik and only has a slightly better shot againest Taylor

 

Pavlik and Taylor are two elite fighters in their primes fighting at their natural weights. Tito WAS an elite WELTERWEIGHT and is now an undersize soft super middleweight and is most certainly not an elite fighter at this weight.

This ain't the 90's, and it isn't 147. Tito is out of his league here.

 

On point 4, yes, I agree. In terms of pure force, they are the same, but of course the crispness, accuracy and timing of Tito's punches is far superior. He has world class punching technique.

And come on, Cotto is a better and more versatile fighter than tito ever was.

And I mean EVER, yes ever, tito was never an elite fighter.

He's lost to every A class fighter he's ever faced, end of story.

Tito is a weird one for me, because I like watching him fight, and he has the kind of style I dig, but I could never bring myself to be a fan because of the absurd nuthuggery surrounding him.

Jones had a similar level of nuthuggery, but that didn't bother me as much because he was an absolutely incredible fighter.

 

That's retarded

 

No it isn't, it's retarded that so many people think he was.

He was an excellent fighter, but an elite one? I don't think so.

What prime, A class fighter did Tito ever beat? None.

Every A class fighter he's faced has schooled him. That's not the mark of an elite fighter.

 

You meant "better" as in technically more accomplished or versatile? Ok, I can agree with that overall. Though there are specific things Trinidad excels at much more than Cotto.

But "better" as in 'greater'....no, today's Cotto has a bit more to do to approach the level at which Trinidad left off.

As for the rest....Trinidad absolutely was an elite fighter. I guess it depends on what you mean by elite.

He was definitely a top fighter of his generation and was top-5 in every division he visited.

That's elite.

His 'greatness' and/or legacy can be debated.

Peace.

 

Tito obviously has a greater legacy and resume and longetivity over cotto right now.

Personally I believe Cotto to be the better fighter. Not as exciting to most people, and for some reason doesn't trigger erections in Puerto Ricans throughout the land like Tito did.

But Cotto has already beaten an A class fighter in Mosley, which is more than Trinidad ever did.

Tito beat some very good fighters, and beat them impressively, no doubt about it. Carr, Vargas, Reid, Joppy etc etc

But every A class fighter he has faced has beaten him clearly, and somehow this gets ignored by the Tito worshippers.

Tito himself was an A class fighter, but not an elite fighter, because he could beat a fellow A class fighter.

For example - Castillo at his best - A class fighter, Floyd - elite fighter.

Shit, as crap as he is to watch, and as inconsistent - Taylor is an elite fighter, and proved it against Nard and Wright.

Look how Tito performed against them in comparison.

 

Dude, those are rankings you've made up in your own mind...."A class" vs. "elite" and "B class." ::

Fact is, Trinidad started at 140 lbs.; won his first title at age 19 at 147 lbs.; defended it 15 times; unified at 147; then unified at 154 taking two belts in his first 3 fights there; then went and faced a long-reigning title-holder in his first fight at 160 lbs. who at that time was no worse than top-3 at middleweight....and got a belt there.

That's elite.

And no, I will never think DLH "schooled" Trinidad. Sorry, but that doesn't reflect the scoring of that fight or what actually happened. Feel free to disagree.

And to mention Cotto beating Mosley - and Taylor supposedly doing "well" against Hops and Wright - and comparing that to Trinidad while ignoring the context of age, stage in career, weight class and time in retirement seems a bit short-sighted.

That said - I like Cotto as well and always have. It's not an either/or discussion for me. :dunno:

But I ain't rehashing all this again....it's been done to death.

Peace.