Calzaghe Vs Pavlik - who wins?

OK let's put it this way: If Hopkins was to knock down and buzz Antonio Tarver, wouldn't it be likely that the bigger, faster, stronger and more aggressive Roy Jones could do it too, correct?

 

it depends if his dilz was sticking up out of his cup

 

Do you like Pavlik because he looks like a giant dick with gloves?

 

:: ::

 

not me.. i bet you like that though

 

jones jr is not bigger or stronger than hopkins at this point in time. his hands are faster, but it was the timing of the punch not the speed that dropped calzaghe.

 

Nah. I would say that RJJ is the bigger, stronger, faster of the two. Bhop is much more intelligent though, at least inside the ring.

 

Yeah, and his chin isn't Hopkins' either...which is why he is so devoted to protecting it. Jones covers up at the hint of punches to his chin...and he willing takes any abuse to his midsection to make sure his chin doesn't get hit.

I do think he has a little more confidence agains smaller guys, but that means confident enough to actually fight them...whereas I don't think he'd fight Tarver - who he's in a war of words with at BTalk over who deserves Calzaghe next - or Johnson.

 

REED'll Put it SIMPLY...

If 1 Guy THROWS More than Hopkins, isn't it LOGICAL to @ Least ASSume he'll LAND More than Hopkins???:dunno: ...

Pavlik Throws CONSIDERABLY MORE than Hopkins, so Why WOULDN'T he LAND More than Hopkins???:dunno: ...& Since Pavlik Hits HARDER than Hopkins (who DROPPED Calzaghe), why COULDN'T he Hurt or Drop Calzaghe Himself???...


REED

 

Who's doing That???


REED:dunno:

 

It is NOT and that is what I was just pointing out with my example of Ward&Mayweather. It is about accuracy and the way they punch, not "swing as uch as you can in case you hit something". Pavlik punches more but his punches are much easier to see plus Calzaghe wouldn't run into them since Pavlik would probably be coming for him.

 

Ugo - accuracy and timing are some of Pavlik's best attributes.

He has high connect percentages, and it's the reason he is so effective, despite having relatively slow hands.

What he lacks in handspeed, he more than makes up for in accuracy and timing.

Check out the round that he takes out Jermain Taylor, a superb example of accurate, perfectly timed power punches.

 

I've read at least a couple guys suggesting an easy Pavlik night, but maybe they were just trolling.

 

True enough but that isn't the point either. Hopkins caught Calzaghe good TWICE in the fight and both times it was with well-placed counters for which he waited to land. Pavlik does NOT throw punches like that, he is more forward-guy and for that reason easier for Calzaghe's st yle

 

Well he won't get Calzaghe running into a punch like Nard did no, but don't underestimate how well he picks his shots.

He usually sets his power shots up with a jab, and he can counter, and he only lets loose with his right hand cannon when he creates or sees a good opportunity.

He's excellent at conserving his energy, because he only generates huge power when he's sure they are going to land.

I'm picking Calzaghe, but I have no doubt at all that Pavlik is going to catch him with more big punches than Bernard did.

How much effect they have remains to be seen.

The only reason Calzaghe was decked was sheer surprise, and the fact that he didn't see it coming, and literally ran into it, rushing in carelessly.

 

:: @ the 12 picking Pavlik to beat Calzaghe.

 

How DARE U, MEX...

Don't U KNOW that Pavlik is Basically "Mickey Ward" & has NO Chance of HITTING Calzaghe???...

Seriously, Thank GOD U're NOT as Faaaaaaaaaar Up Calzaghe's ASS as Some of Fightbeat's Other Euro Posters R...

2 INSINUATE that Pavlik has NO Chance is NUTHUGGERY @ it's FINEST...

REED

 

Bernard THROWS about 10 Punches PER Round...He Landed & HURT Calzaghe w/2 of them...

Pavlik's Workrate SHITS on Bernards AND he has a GOOD HARD JAB...Sure, Pavlik DOESN'T "Throw Like" Bernard, Instead he Throws HARDER Shots N HIGHER Volume...

Factor N his SUPERIOR Power (to that of Bernard) & Calzaghe's DIMINISHING Defense & how Can U NOT Think Pavlik will LAND More than Bernard???:dunno: ...

@ NO Point has REED Said Pavlik will BEAT Calzaghe (Just Check the Votes, U'll See REED HASN'T Decided Either Way), but to Act like he's Waaaaaaaay OUT of Calzaghe's League is FOOLISH...

U Keep Saying "This ISN'T the Point, THAT Isn't the Point"...What IS the Point????...


REED:dunno:

 

Those Same Guys WOULDN'T Compliment Calzaghe, N ANY Way, @ GUNPOINT...


REED::

 

pavlik can punch, we all know that, but there's a reason why Arum is lining him up against soft touches in his next two bouts.

he's certainly not going to rush this kid into difficult fights that could damage him in the long run.

calzaghe is old and in decline, but i still think he kicks the crap outta pavlik. kessler would beat him too.

pavlik should fight abraham (a pick'em fight there imo) and if he wins, he should try to fight for a vacant belt against a beatable opponent.

 

Cal by UD or Pav by KO. I like Pavlik to wear him down and get the late KO.

 

agREED....

& that Reason is Pavlik's Last 4 Fights...Zertuche, Miranda & Taylor TWICE...

It's NOT Like Arum is PROTECTING Pavlik...NO Elite Fighter Faces ELITE Guys 100% of the Time...


REED:nono:

 

What conclusive evidence is there that Pavlik punches that much harder than Hopkins?

Pavlik is a VERY hard punching middleweight, but his power seemed to diminish somewhat when he fought Taylor the second time at the higher catchweight of 166. Some fighter's simply don't carry their power as the move up in weight (especially MW's to SMW. Benn, Eubanks an McClellan all seemed to lose snap at 168) , and on the basis of the single fight Kelly has had higher than 160, the evidence SEEMS to suggest that he might be one of them.

Kelly is most certainly in Joe's league- they are both elite, undefeated and undisputed champions of their respective weights, BUT there are some people, me included, who think Kelly's style is exactly the kind of style which Joe eats up. That is not derogative to Kelly- I LOVE watching him fight- it's simply a bad style match up for him IMO.

Hopkins, early doors, showed the best way to beat Joe IMHO. To make him force the fight and catch him with quick, powerful counters as he comes forward. Encouraging him to run, face first, into shots. Tying Joe up as often as possible and working the body inside in and out of the clinch. Being generally elusive and evasive and landing the better shots on the retreat.

Not much of that applies to Kelly. He LOVES to pile forward behind his 1-2 combinations. He NEVER takes a backward step. And he has no more than decent defence and is generally hittable, because he is always in front of his opponent, trying to KO him. His accuracy is excellent, but he isn't especially quick handed (though he isn't exactly a slouch, either to be fair)

Joe loves fighters like that. He eats them alive.

MTF

 

Who are all these fighters that Calzaghe "ate up" that are anywhere near as good as Pavlik? Who did he beat that punches as hard and throws as many punches as Pavlik? Don't you dare say Lacy either! ::

 

::

Sadly, Lacy is the obvious example of a 'come forward' fighter who Joe made look silly. Not that I'm saying Jeff is as good as Pavlik, you understand, because he is not by a long shot, but that is the obvious example.

Kessler too is a 'hard hitting, 1-2 and come forward' type of guy. He gave Joe plenty of trouble early doors until Joe figured him out and started countering, beating Mikkel to his punch and moving in and out of range.

There are some who would argue that Kessler is as good as Kelly (I prefer Kelly, as it happens). Certainly, both are elite fighters IMO.

I'm not saying Pavlik can't possibly win. He can. He certainly could hurt Joe in a lot of spots if he scores with his jabs and powerful straight right hand. And again, I think there is clear evidence that Joe is now beginning to decline. I'm just not yet convinced that Kelly carries his power at the higher weight (which is a CRUCIAL issue IMO) and I don't think it's a good style match up for him.

I'd favour Calzaghe by around 70-75%. In other words, I'd favour him strongly, but it would be a long way from being a 'lock'.

 

I don't know about "ate up" but he beat Kessler clearly, and I consider him to be a better fighter than Pavlik.

For all the talk of Hopkins' knockdown, let's not forget Taylor had Pavlik down much harder in their first fight. Frankly, Hopkins' knockdown wasn't all that forceful. It was a great punch that landed cleanly, but Hopkins' coming forward helped a bit in depositing Calzaghe on the canvas, IMO, and he wasn't there all that long.

To be honest, I think that'd be a bit like people claiming Calzaghe's going to hurt Pavlik based on McKart putting him down (making his gloves the canvas).

I didn't really see anything in that fight that makes me all that confident in Pavlik's chances.

And let's remember, Pavlik has really only spent about 2-3 fights at the world class level...and Miranda is debatable, IMO, in terms of world class skill level. Punching power, yes, but not in terms of skill. Zertuche definitely isn't.

 

talk about hedging your bet

i pick that either calzaghe or pavlick will win

 

In fairness to Pavlik, he is a two fisted fighter and doesn't just load up with one at a time. I do see the point you are making though.

I really don't know who i'd pick in this fight but Calzaghe is hideous to watch and I can't stand the slapping. I would root for Pavlik to destroy him.

 

Pavlik would be a good

fight for joe to win. I'd like to see it. If Calzaghe wins, it helps his record to become more respectable.

 

LOL @ you thinking Pavlik has a style made for Joe :: :laughing: :: :laughing:

Pavlik who DOMINATED and STOPPED Taylor (the first time) DOMINATES Joe.. no doubt about it