Charlie Zelenoff

Doesn't destroy a heavyweight. Once again, too much mans :dunno:

 

Thank you, I said nothing different :bears:

 

pernell whitaker used to beat up heavyweights (both amateurs and bum professionals) in sparring.

he even had a televised exhibition match (although they only showed highlights) against some green heavyweight on USA's tuesday night fights. he got tagged early, but ended up beating his ass against the ropes towards the end.

 

its a little thing you realize, wrestling and doing martial arts when you are 135 LBS blowing through 250 LBS out of shape scrubs and 140 LBS small asian guys then a 160 LBS guy with equal skill comes in and just abuses you cuz of 20 measly pounds (even though he looks the same size)

size unfortunately matters very much in a real fight, when someone can grab and hit you, and or throw you on the ground.

 

He wasn't 120 and I bet it wasn't staged Poor example with one of the fastest fighters ever in the world.

 

You missed the old arguments, it was because they were "boxers" they could win in a street fight EASILY.......giving up 100 pounds and almost a foot in height

 

Change that Word to "IF" & your Point is Valid...

Most Little Guys CAN'T Hit or Grab Other Little Guys Whenever they Want, so how's a BIGGER, HEAVIER, SLOWER Guy Gonna Do it???:dunno: ...

Even N a Streetfight Scenario, while the Bigger Guy is WAITING for his Opportunity to Get his Hands on the Little Guy, he's Getting TAGGED Repeatedly...

Big Guys have a THRESHOLD as Well...


REED

 

What U're Failing to Acknowledge or Realize is that Lower Weight "Boxers" R ADEPT @ AVOIDING Charges & Blows...

So Factor N a Guy w/an EXTRA 100lbs...He's Gonna B even SLOWER than a Lower Weight Guy is Used to Fighting...Even EASIER to Hit, EASIER to Avoid...

L& ike REED Said, even Bigger Guys have a Threshold...It's NOT like they're just Gonna Brush Off the Shots from Smaller Guys All Night Loooooooong...

It'd B like Chopping Down a TREE...

Not to Mention the STAMINA Issue...The Vast Majority of Street Fights Last 2-3 Minutes TOPS...A Lower Weight Boxer WON'T Get Tired N your Run of the Mill Streetfight...


REED

 

good point.

however most street fights definitely start within grabbing distance and without matrix like speed someone will grab your shirt and if they are twice as strong as you, you're most likely fucked.

i taught martial arts (started as boxing) for about 4 months, and the only student who could abuse me was the least athletic of all but just strong as fuck (worked construction) and while in a boxing match he couldnt hit nikolai valuev, if the guy got ahold of you, you were fucked.

now if the boxer takes the cheap shot, or kick to the groin his chances go up at least 50% against a big guy.

but that eliminates the point as tyler's said point is that just because the guy is a boxer he cant crush guys...not a boxer/street fighter ala Jeff Fenech.

 

um....most boxers, to my knowledge, are pretty tough guys. Almost all of them have been involved in streetfights.

I've known a few...none below 147 that have reputations for beating up big ass bouncers. Shit, even Zab tagged up Busta's personal security.

 

Tyler, I'm talking about a boxing match, not a street fight.

And by the way, the few street fights I've had (not many) have been with bouncers. Because I fuckign hate them, I just hate them.

After a few drinks I just can't help myself, nausing up bouncers.

And I've beaten 200 pound + bouncers, giving up 50 pounds, much, much easier than I have decent amateur boxers my own size in the ring.

In fact, in the 3 fights I've had with bouncers, they didn't even get a chance to punch me or grab me, as soon as it looked as if it was coming to blows, I used my punching ability that's been honed for about a decade, to take them out fast.

Yet I have been outslicked, outskilled, and outexperienced by decent amateur and pro fighters, even though I am fast and powerful.

On the street, I would much, much rather fight some 220 pound fucking knucklehead than a good pro featherweight.

One of my best friends is a former pro featherweight with a losing record, he is 5'7 high, and I have seen him fuckign demolish 2 big thugs at the same time, that were trying to break into his car.

The difference between a pro fighter and a keyboard warrior like you is monumental, it's a different level of fighting, and like REED said, the fact that you can't see that, only goes to show you have never been anywhere near a boxing ring.

It's like you kicking a ball around a park once a fortnight, and thinking you and your mates would stand a chance against Brazil, it's just a different level.

 

Didn't Zab crack some big bouncers eye socket with 1 punch?

 

I coud beat up this Zelenoff guy, then I would brag about beating up a pro boxer. :bears:

 

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Even an old post crackhead version of Pernell was absolutely TOYING with guys who epitomize the keyboard warrior in Pros vs Joes.

 

ex crackhead. Now he drinks and smokes cigarettes.

 

Streetfighting uses different stamina, you don't know anything about fighting :: Stick to believing a midget would run between my legs and hit me in the back and I would fall over :laughing:

 

Zab is a streetfighter and is worried about street cred, the 120 guy you keep bringing up is not to our knowledge.....and Zab is not 120. Terrible strawman.

 

Tyler...i haven't read every post on this thread...but are you saying YOU could beat a WORLD CLASS/Prospect/Contender/top 40 n his division 120 pound fighter in a STREETfight?

 

Boxer, yes. And I am not the only one who said this either.

 

:kay...maybe if you get lucky and kick 'em in the balls...or can grab a hold of them and keep them on the ground...

but i like your chances better vs. 106 fighter..like CAlderon maybe....120 boxer usually blow up to 130+ in between fights.....

 

You are entitled to your opinion no matter how ridiculous :dunno:

 

At least you know what you saying is a bit crazy....

 

Nothing crazy about a weight advantage, only crazy saying it is no factor in a fight.

 

how much do you weigh...what is your height...?

 

220 6'2"

 

Shut up worried about street cred etc, if any good boxer gets into a streetfight, that's what happens.

And you've got to be fuckign tough to be a boxer, most of them have probably had street fights like someone else said, and most of them come from rough backgrounds.

Pavlik is a cool guy, a nice guy, but even he has laid out a bouncer for one reason or another.

So do you think you could take Zab in a street fight?

 

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:eeeek: that is embarassing.. he looked like he has never boxed before

 

Shut up about worried street cred? You shut up :tease:

Another strawman, but now throw in Pavlik? I guess Pavlik can beat every bouncer in the world with your delusional rationale :laughing:

Zab Judah is an idiot and worries about his street rep, this is a fact. Where as most do not and would not DARE jeapordize hurting themselves where they cannot fight and earn their living. How do you not realize this? :: Boxing helps in street fights, it doesn't gaurantee a victory because there is more to it with NO rules :doh: It's really that simple, it's obvious you have no common sense in this department.

 

dsimon writes:

Every so often a thread like this appears and it just is not worth responding imo. People think way to much about boxing and boxers with respect to a street fighting. I don't even bother posting::.

But I have to lend some support for Tyler's point of view here:


1) Bouncers are a bad example: A lot of bouncers are big and cannot fight a lick. I have seen bouncers literally broken up in a fight because they swung at a small guy, misssed, and broke their hand on the ground, hit a parking meter etc... Boxing had nothing to do with it. I have seen my fellow bouncers (when I was bouncing) have an argument with a midget :: put their hands down.... said midget takes a free crack at them, drops them and runs away.

Bouncers who know how to handle themselves are another story and will not generally get cracked in the face by anyone standing in front of them because they are prepared for someone hitting them.

2) Boxers punch in a manner where they can imjure their hand in a street fight. It happens a lot. Different fighting environment different way of hitting people.

Yes sometimes a boxer will prevail.. and sometimes a wrestler will prevail, etc etc etc. And often the guy who picks up a bottle will prevail. Yes a boxer has an intial advantage but it is quickly nullified when distance changes.

People make this same argument for grappling by the way.... "Oh!! a Gracie guy will kick __________'s ass everytime!! And I used to have the pleasure of watching, while bouncing, grapplers getting pummeled on the ground while trying to put somoene in a guard position to choke them out.::


I bounced for about 12 years so I have some measure of experience. The guys who did the best? Guys like me... With a martial arts background who judiciously avoided any combat unless totally pressed into action.

here is an example of an instructive melee that actually happened:

4 guys with guns come in to do a hit on our owner, they pull out a busboy and start to wreck him, the staff runs out a big brawl ensues.... Results:

The four guys are unable to shoot after pistol whipping the buser, two bouncers break their hands because they hit the guys in the area where the pistol is in their jacket, the guys are taken down in ju jutsu holds and kicked to within an inch of their lives. In this case the Ju Jutsu is the most effective tool because it takes them down so others can kick their heads in on the ground.