Did PBF retire on top...

..With nothing left to prove?
He retired as champ @ 147, but does that mean he retired on top with nothing left to prove?

Consider who you regard to be the top 3 guys @ 147.
Have those 3 guys fought each other?
Has PBF fought any of them?

If he has not, can we regard him as having retired on top with nothing left to prove?

If he did not retire on top with nothing left to prove, why do you think he retired?

-Bored?
-But there are those 3 guys still to fight.
Maybe it could be said that there would always be "someone" left to fight, but It's not as if they are "young guns" in comparison to PBF, who were not around when he was "on top"
They are guys who are his contemporaries.

Old?-He's 31 (one yr older than Margarito-Same age as Clottey).

Money?-Does it really come down to money?

Now when you've considered your answers, consider what you regard as qualities that make a fighter a "great fighter" as opposed to a "great talent" & ask yourself if you think PBF qualifies.

 

No - he avoided:
* Casamayor
* Margarito
* Cotto
* Spinks
* Mosley
* Wright
* Taylor
* Hopkins
* Abraham
* Pavlik

For a supposed, all-time, multi-weight P4P boxer...that's poor.

 

He retired to avoid much better competition, that's on bottom.

 

You forgot about DLH payday.....money my ass.

 

Yeah - shit, old fajita....

 

Floyd had to clean 147 lbs, even in a boring fashion, to be considered the top guy at his weight. He needed to fight Cotto, Williams and Marge. Of the three of them, I think Williams beats him. He may slip away from Marge's attack for 12 rounds, he may out box and punish Cotto with perfectly timed right hands, but Williams size, speed, work rate and lefty stance would've been too much for the boy.

 

He retired on top, as he was and had been for a while the number one fighter on the world. However, he still had (has) plenty of challenges left at 147. There's always more things to prove, Floyd didn't prove he was the best fighter ever however that's a fucking good career and he'll be remembered amongst the best, not bad. I do wish he comes back and takes Margarito.

 

There's a difference in being argumentative about somebody like Lewis for instance & saying that he had to rematch Vitali to prove he was the best HWY, when he had aleady beaten him & clearly was the best in his division when he retired.-He retired on top, & realistically had nothing left to prove.

But PBF didn't prove that he was the best in the division he was fighting in when he retired from it. How could he have retired "on top" when he hadn't proved that he was the "top" of the division?

 

Because Lewis was a heavyweight, fought there all his career. Floyd was a Superfeatherweight mostly, then went up and beat more fighters. Was he the undisputed champ at 147 when he retired? No. Was he and had been along the road the best fighter in the world? Yes. Cannot compare both I guess.

 

I only made the comparison between Lewis & PBF in reference to your "there's always more to prove" comment V10. Maybe I should have made that clearer.
For me, PBF career @ 140-147 is not the career of a "great 140-147" fighter.
Certainly @ 147 he has the opportunities to do a lot better.

 

That's a good argument... :bears:

 

Maybe I've missed something.
How does;

as an argument address;

???

 

i think he left too many questions and challenges at 147

his reign at welter is a huge joke

 

mayweather jr accomplished more in his career to date than lennox lewis.

 

this is a dymipepel/kaukipur-esque post

 

Seems you need a reminder as to what this thread is about;

Hope this clears it up...

 

retiring on top is a subjective thing.

not many boxers are first ballot hall of famers who garnered purses which total 9 figures in their career. even fewer did that while taking very little punishment.

if your criticism is that mayweather failed in cleaning out the welterweight division then please list me all of the boxers who cleaned out the fourth division inwhich they competed.

 

It is a subjective thing. As is whether he has nothing left to prove.
As I understand it, that's the point of message boards.

Unless there was a thread devoted to unpacking tautologies that I'm unaware of, I don't think that I've seen a thread in fightbeat history that didn't involve subjectivity.

I am curious as to peoples opinions on the subject presented in my initial post which I thought outlined my thinking in a way that was very transparent.

However, I'm still not sure what your opinion regarding that post is...

 

My view is that history may not be too kind to Floyd Mayweather jr.

Whilst it is easy and appropriate to recognise his skills, talents and accomplishments, particularly in the lower weights in which he campaigned, there are two issues with which I believe his reputation will be tarnshied.

The first is his style. Floyd has had some notable sucesses in fighting a cagey, backfoot fashion. The fight with De La Transexual, oft quoted as Floyd's greatest moment, was eye-bleedingly boring to watch. Also, and though he obviously he makes far too much out of it ::, Kauki is correct to note that Floyd's defense is pretty much illegal and fucking horrible to watch.

As an aside, I always find it amusing to note that, generally speaking, the same people who hated Lennox Lewis for being too cagey and cautious are the ones who lets Floyd's nuts bounce the loudest from their chins... ::

The second reason why history won't be too kind to him is the obvious one. 147 might be the most loaded and exciting in boxing right now, with five or so excellent fighters taking turns to beat one another in what is starting to resemble a boxing carousel and with no single fighter being able to establish himself as 'The Man' in the division.

Meanwhile, Floyd, the lineal 147 champion (as we are constantly reminded) fought Oscar and Hatton (namely, none of the five of six top guys at 147 who are fighting each other to a standstill) then retired.

A truly great champion is one who faces the toughest challenges available to him and, more often than not, perserves. It is not possible, even for the most loyal of PBF's nuthuggers, to suggest that Floyd has faced even ONE of the greatest available challenges to him at 147 since he beat Baldomir to win his lineal 147 title. Not ONE of them.

In the meantime, these guys take turns to beat the shit outta one another, calling each other out and swapping wins and losses like no bodies business. It is my opinion that their desire to FIGHT each other and beat each other puts PBF's obvious and stated desire to make MONEY to shame.

Floyd is a great fighter, has great abilities but he is not, IMHO, a great champion of anything bar making cash. In that respect, he has very few historical equals.

MTF

 

His runs at 147 and 140 were mostly hype, sure he did beat some good figters there, but he didnt beat the top guns in either one ( you could argue for 140 with Hatton but that was much much latter ).At 147, what he did was shamefull, a pure con job, there is so much talent there but he fought none of them. Clottey, Cintron, Quintana, Williams, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley and maybe Berto, would all have been good fight for him, much better than Hatton or Baldomir, Judah was a decent win but he has proven to be a notch below the top ww. PBF was a stellar fighter, no doubt about it, but he was carefully managed and avoided a lo

 

Floyd didn't do anything worth a damn since beating Castillo in 2002. After that he never again fought the best in the division he was in. His run at 140 and 147 were nothing to get excited about. Beating Hatton at 147 where he's done nothing but look REALLY bad against Collazo doesn't mean anything and barely beating old ass Oscar who hasn't had a significant victory in how long? Means nothing.

 

The Problem is, Floyd is EASILY THE Most Criticized Fighter N Boxing...& there's a LITTANY of FB Posters who will NEVER B Satisfied, No Matter WHAT Floyd Does or WHO he Fights...

When he Moved Up to 147 from 140, EVERYBODY BITCHED Cause Floyd Didn't Face Ricky Hatton...When Floyd Faced Zab Judah Instead of Carlos Baldomir, EVERYBODY BITCHED Cause Floyd Wasn't Campaigning for the "Linear" Welterweight Title...

Funny Thing is, AFTER Floyd EASILY WON the "Linear" Welterweight Title, All Anybody Wanted to Talk about was how "Boring" the Fight was...N HINDSIGHT, NOBODY Gave a Shit about the "Linear" Welterweight Title, it was just Something to CLING To N the Name of HATING Floyd...

After DeLa, Floyd Surprised EVERYBODY by Making the Fight w/Hatton...There was PLENTY of Support on this Very Site for Hatton, but After he Got WAXED, All those Same Supporters Could Talk about was how Hatton Isn't a Welter...IGNORING the FACT that Floyd ISN'T Either:boohoo:

Now, THE SAME Posters who Said Floyd "Ducked" Hatton @ 140 R BITCHING Because Floyd DESTROYED him @ 147...As if 7 Fucking Pounds Makes THAT Much of a Difference when NEITHER of the Combatants R True Welters...Let's Not Forget, Floyd BEGAN his Career @ 130 & REMAINED there for SEVERAL Years...N Hindsight, NOBODY Gave a Shit about Floyd vs. Hatton, Hatton was just Something to CLING to N the Name of HATING Floyd...

REED's Point is, FB Posters Conveniently Position Themselves to ALWAYS have an Angle to BITCH from, N Regards to Floyd...

True Enough, Floyd DEFINITELY Has UNfinished Business @ 147...REED is Often MIScharacterized as a Floyd YES Man, but that COULDN'T B Fuuuuuuuuurther from the Truth...Roy Jones, Jr. & Muhammad Ali R THE ONLY Fighters REED will EVER Love to that Degree...

To Answer the Question Posed N the Thread (Finally::), Floyd Retired as THE MAN @ 147, but there was CLEARLY Deserving Challengers...Guys who Could CONCEIVABLY Beat him...& if he REMAINS Retired, that will Rightfully Affect his LEGACY...

Most of ya'll Dislike Floyd's Arrogance & Whatnot...What REED Dislikes about him is the Notion that HE Determines his Place N History...As if he can TELL US he's "The Best Ever" & We're Just Supposed to Accept it...

The FRUSTRATING Part of Being a FAN of Floyd's is that he's on the BRINK of Making that Statement TRUE...Margarita, Williams, Cotto, Mosley...If Floyd Defeated 2 or 3 of those Names, that'd B Enough for REED & Floyd Could Call it a Career...

The REAL Question is, what would B Enough for YOU to Accept Floyd's Career???...


REED:hammert:

 

Based on what, Mister REED? He hasn't fought a legitimate Welter since he beat Baldy. In the meantime, a whole host of top quality 147 fighters have emerged from the pack to face off against one another in high quality, brutal encounters.

Whilst this goes on, Floyd sits back, counts his money and lets his fans continue to tell everyone that he is 'The Man' at 147. :: :bangh:

'The Man' at 147 right now is arguably Margarito, though there is a legitimate argument to be made that Williams is as he holds a W over Antonio. Either way, there is no logical argument to be made whatsoever, that I can see, that allows Mayweather to be 'The Man' at 147.

Yes it would. If he even beat ONE of the half dozen of so guys contesting the No1. 147lb spot right now, it would go a long way to undoing the abject waste of talent his last two years have been.

MTF

 

There's usually always more to prove. Especially when you're only 31 and your best wins at your current weight are against Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir, and Ricky Hatton while there are such other quality fighters at the weight class.

Mayweather did "retire" (for now) on top per se, as he was on top of the p4p rankings and the linear welterweight champ, but there were plenty of challenges out there at 147 for him to take.

 

No, it's something Floyd fans cling to, they want a win over Baldomir to mean something. The timing of Zab losing to Baldomir couldn't have worked out better for Floyd. It paved and EASY road to the title. Not Floyd's fault, but he sure as hell didn't hesitate to take the easy route.

Let's not forget that you posted some garbage article about how Baldomir was a fraud after he won the Judah fight. Now you think it should mean something? Make up yer damn mind! I guess it's whatever fits your argument for that day eh?

The truth is, we all know that Floyd could have silenced a lot of his critics had he chosen to actually clean out the 140 or 147. He chose not to, he may have been the Champ at 147, but he was damn sure not THE MAN.

 

Take on Margarito NOW!!!

 

Let's B CLEAR...

Floyd Mayweather CEASED Being "The Man" @ 147 on July 26th...The Instant Margarita & Cotto were N the Same Ring STARING @ Each Other, they were Vying for "The Man" Status @ 147...

When REED Referred to Floyd as "The Man", he was Speaking of PRIOR to then...Like it or Not, MANY Floyd Naysayers (Fans, Media, etc.) Acted as if it was IMPERATIVE that Floyd Acqure the "Linear" Welterweight Title...

It's Funny to REED how Soooooooooo Many LATCHED Onto that "Linear" Shit & NOW They're Sweeping it Under the Rug...

Floyd HATERS R Playing BOTH Sides of the Argument..

REED:mj:

 

Excellent post MTF.:bears:

 

PBF should never have moved up from 140 if he had no intentions of fighting the best fighters there. His legacy would've been better off. In retrospect he will get very little credit for defeating ODH, first because he barely did so and secondly because ODH was so over the hill when he did.

PBF responded to public demands with contempt and disrespect. I think he's afraid of:

1. Getting knocked out which will destroy the aura of invincibility he's managed to fool so many into believing in

2. Ending up like a retarded sounding idiot like his uncle when he speaks - this would surely be the outcome if he were to take on all of the guys we would have him take on (Cotto, Margarito and Williams).

 

BULLSHIT:boohoo:...

YOU & REED BOTH Know that Brian Kinney, a HOST of Other Assorted Media Types AND Floyd Naysayers CONSTANTLY Harped on Baldomir & his "Linear" Status (Particularly AFTER Baldomir Whipped Gatti)...

REED is the 1 Pointing Out the HYPOCRISY of YA"LL...YOU Guys CROWNED Baldomir, Not REED...Yet when Floyd EASILY Beat him, All ANY of Ya'll Wanted to Discuss was how "Boring" the Fight was:boohoo:...

Same w/Hatton...YA'LL Went from Saying "Floyd DUCKED Hatton" to "Hatton was Never a Welterweight Anyways"...

REED is FULLY Aware that Floyd has UNfinished Business @ 147, but ALOT of YA"ll Need to CONFESS that there's NATHAN Floyd can Do to Appease YOU...

REED:boohoo: