Is it possible.....

.....that Shane just completely underestimated Mayorga?....he must have seen how Tito and DLH beat on Mayorga and figured all he had to do was show up, and his class would be the difference........he didn't seem to have a game plan

Fitness wise, he must have been in pretty good shape cos of the way he pulled out the KO....but mentally was he ill-prepared?


.....so giving the benefit of a lot of doubt.......perhaps Shane still has a big performance up his sleeve!?!?

 

I don't think so. IMO it was just that Mosley's timing and reflexes had gone and I don't know if any training can bring them back now. I expected him to stop Mayorga's rushes with quick counters but he wasn't able to do that and he got hit lot more than ever before. He can still give a fight to pretty much anyone but I don't think he has it anymore.

 

dsimon writes:

True.

And if you look at the angle of Mayorga's punches, they are very difficult to counter cleanly.

If Shane is at his best he gets in there straight ahead, but with father time, etc Shane is just a little slower and the extra milliseconds show in the ugliness of the exchange between the two guy's punches.

With a punch that comes at an angle, or is anything but straight when you counter it the punch tends to loop around and into you. Unless you simply walk in and blast the other guy before he can complete the punch. :: I see this many weekends when we practice.... when the guys get lazy especially.

 

this is the most abused line in the sport, and perhaps the greatest reason that fighters simply refuse to go away when their time is up. People always float this line, never taking into consideration that maybe, just maybe, we already saw their last great performance.

I;'m not dismissing the rest, but honestly, Shane looked like a 37-year old fighter that's been on the decline for the past few years. Mayorga did better than expected; I don't think it had much (if anything) to do w/ Shane being underprepared in any given area.

 

i took that completely into consideration......thats why i started the thread....that view is the consensus and my own.......what i was asking is if we are going overboard?......for example, how many times have people said the same thing about Casamayor before he has proved them wrong!?!

fighters that refuse to go away when their time is up are guys who are in denial.....when all the evidence is stacked against them.......they are finito and can't bring themselves to that sad fact.......i don't think Shane is at that stage yet.........he might be after his next fight

 

Shane has always prepared well. I don't think he's ever underestimated anyone or took them lightly. It's just that time caught up with him.

I think it may have been more likely that Mayorga would have beaten Shane in 04 before he fought Spinks because Shane was right on the decline then, he looked really crappy against Jose Luis Cruz. After Mayorga's chin had been cracked by Tito and Oscar, he was pretty much done as a threat.

 

mosley should call it quits. there aren't any fights for him at 154, and i'm sure he doesnt want to make 147 again. no one wants to see him lose to forrest again.

 

I totally agree. Mosley has always been a great fighter, and consistent. He put on a good effort as always, but he is done now.

His handspeed has gradually declined over the years (Saturday more evident than ever), but the thing that was REALLY noticable even since the Cotto fight, but his lack of timing and accuracy.

 

Mosley is tedious as hell to watch when he fights guys bigger than him - hence the perception that he is better at 147.

He holds way too much for me to be a fan, except for the fact that he'll fight/grapple anyone.

 

Even if that were the case, that Shane took him lightly he's always training and staying in shape anyway, so I doubt he would have looked that bad. I think a much closer possibility (if an excuse must be given) is that he possibly overtrained due to supposed to have been fighting Judah a month or two sooner. Or he could have just had a bad night.

My money though is on him being shot. The number 1 indicator to this I believe is the loss of his handspeed which is a direct indication of getting older. His reaction to incoming shots was also bad. His relexes and reaction time are nearly gone just as they were in the Cotto fight.

The last time Shane looked all there was the Collazo fight. I remember he had it all in that one, his speed, reflexes, even his reaction time all appeared sharp and in tact. He's a shell of himself now and I wish he would retire.

 

Shane stuggled cause he's OLD and cant pull the trigger like he once could. A prime Mosley would've lit up Mayorga's ass like he did Antonio Diaz.

As for having a big performance up his sleeve? He can beat Berto. But he simply doesnt have enough in the tank to beat Margarita at this point.

It would take the circa 2001 Mosley to beat Margarita. And that Mosley is LONG gone!

 

I maintain the Mosley struggles with Mayorga at any point in his career. He's trouble for anyone smaller than he is, who is reluctant to use a jab to set up their counters.

 

No. Mayorga has always been an easy target. A younger Shane would've had no trouble hitting him ALOT, not to mention... a younger Mosley would've worked Mayo's body more often.

I'm not a Mosley groupie, but Shane has been on the downside for so long that I think alot of yall are forgetting how good he was in his prime, from 98-02.

 

The trouble with Mayorga isnt hitting him alot, its making sure he doesn't hit YOU alot. Thats what got Vernon Forrest his first couple of L's and created the Mayorga over-exagerated reputation. But you know what? Underneath that overrated POS, is a fighter who's still pretty damn hard to beat and is going to cause hell for ANY fighter who doesn't move and counter him.

Of course MOsley is on the downside. Its stupid to think otherwise. But he's not shot, and this performance isn't indicative of that. It's indicative of how the fight may have went years before, IMO.

 

I wouldn't call Shane Shot. To me shot is somebody like Chris Byrd or Holyfield who have no business fighting anymore.

Shane is still competitive just not against the elite fighters. But given his carreer competition and age it doesn't surprise me. Even late in his carreer he has taken some hard fights.

I think a fight with Berto or Clottey would be very close for Shane. Not sure if he beats either guy but that's the only way he could retire with a belt.

against Margarito forget about it.

 

Mosley is just plain OLD....but IMO Mayorga weight/size advantage was the cost of Mosley struggle. Mayorga looked huge in there and look in the best condition i have seen him in a long time. In round 1 or 2 Mosley was hurt by one of Mayorga punches..Mosley could not figure out Mayorga wild punching so he was hesitant to go to the body or fight in the inside much..thats why he jump in and out...

 

dsimon writes:

Absolutely True with a capitol T. Those wild punchers are murder to deal with if you don't keep them at bay with a good jab. :bears:

 

dsimon writes:

For those who think hes shot... Mosley can always fight Judah. ::

 

I think the biggest sign he was old is how gunshy he was.

I know his speed has diminished over the years but even though Mayorga is akward he opens himself so much with his wild style. I figured Mosley would have a field day landing without much problem.

Mosley seemed like he was thinking too much in there. Against somebody like Mayorga he shouldn't have to.

 

Mayorga is a big strong guy and Shane has no business fighting at 154

Mayorga made weight well and was alot stronger than I expected...especially remembering that he wasn't all that strong against DLH


i'd like to see Mosley give 147 another shot artie: 154 has never worked out for him and he was competitive against Cotto

 

I think the thing with Mayorga beating Forrest so bad was 2 main factors. (#1.) like I said the performance was flukesional. Almost every fighter has a fight where they look like they just can't be beat and that was Mayorga against Forrest. The evidence here is how close Forrest came to winning the rematch. Had Forrest fought a tuneup first he might have had the confidence to win the rematch. Instead he went right back in with the guy who KO'd him and had walked through his best shots and Forrest didn't get his nerve up to try until mid way through the fight which is pretty much the rds he swept.

(#2.) I don't think Forrest deals well with the style Mayorga presented to him in that first fight. Forrest is a thinking fighter and Mayorga wasn't giving him any room to think or operate and basically forced Forrest into fighting Mayorga's style. That led to the KO.

A prime Mosley thrived on brawlers like Mayorga but this version of Mosley just didn't have the reflexes or speed. Hell, Mayorga actually slipped a few of Mosley's punches. Prime Mosley was just to fast of foot and hand to have had trouble with Mayorga.

 

Shane has actually done okay at 154 IMO. It's not his best weight but I like that he can go up there for certain matches. Anyway he has no intention of staying at 147. There are certain matches he'll take at 154 but for all intents and purposes he considers himself a welter.

 

Right, he can snatch the title from Berto, or try his luck against Margarito. He's looking for "big" fights that aren't anywhere else outside the 147 lbs division. 154 has no names, only high risk/low reward fights.

 

From fightnews:


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So one might ask what is next for the 37-year-old veteran. "I have to talk to Richard and the guys and find out who’s next. I want to fight with the big timers like Margarito."


artie:
[/FONT]

 

Mayorga weighed 170 in the ring. Shane barely 160. There was a huge weight difference. That had to play a role in Shane looking bad. I actually think Shane didn't look all that bad. He just had a tough time figuring out Mayorga's wild style. Forrest lost a decision to Mayorga and Spinks barely edged Mayorga and he's far more elusive than Shane. Mayorga is crude, and he is not very skilled, but he comes to fight and he makes it hard for almost everyone. Trinidad wasn't looking so hot early against Mayorga either.

 

look.. let me first say I'm a big Shane fan and always have been..

that said..

Shane and his dad have the WORST plans in boxing..

Shane's dad comes off as an idiot..

before EVERY fight it's the same thing

"I think _insert fighter's name_ is just going to be really suprised at how STRONG Shane is.. he's SO strong at this weight" (regardless of what weight)


it's like they train Shane to be Tyson..

Shane is NOT a one punch KO guy..

at his best it's Volume.. and speed.. and body shots..

but in the Mayorga fight.. it was like he was loading up waiting to KO Mayo..

if Shane would have circled and Jabbed and used his skill he could EASILY dominate Mayorga.. I dont know why he always wants to slug!! LOL!!

 

flukesional?

 

I believe it has the same meaning as the word he used to describe Forrests multiple victories over Mosley.He's nothing if not predictable.

 

If he's not shot he's pretty close to it.

He's past being on the downside. He was on the downside as early as 2003. He's now washed up. I think everything he had left just about he gave in the Cotto fight.

 

This is funny because I remember mentioning how great Shane looked after KOing Vargas and almost nobody wanted to give Shane credit. They kept mentioning that he only looked good because Vargas was shot. Nobody seemed to be paying attention to how well Shane's hand speed, and timing seemed to be back on track.

Now with Mayorga it's just the opposite--although it's way less people who think so--people want to try to say Mayorga was the reason Shane looked so BAD. Did you not notice how slow Shane was punching? His speed is basically gone. His punch output is so low I don't see how he could beat anyone if it goes to the cards. Also you could clearly see Shane just couldn't pull the trigger. I hope I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure he's shot as well as deluded.