Mosely Fans official crow thread

something like that ::

though for what it's worth, I've always felt the same about Cotto. Though with him it's easier to explain why I was/am indifferent to his career.

 

As a Mosley fan, it pains me to admit that Forrest took the "Sugar" out of Shane with a straight right hand and an uppercut. Ever since then, Shane has been a solid fighter but not an elite one.

The pre-Forrest Mosley was incredible to watch. He was the most entertaining fighter I've ever seen. He needs to hang up the gloves and call it a career.

 

the stooge that started this thread seems to savour seeing former greats looking vulnerable in twilights of their careers in their late 30s. its best to gloss over their obvious decline if trying to argue that they were never as good as advertised. the ignorant will take any sort of manufactured validation available.

 

Now that I think about it, even looking at this from your point of view Ike I wouldn't have to eat crow. The reason is because I never made a prediction on this fight because to be honest I wasn't totally confident Shane would win it. I was pretty sure Shane would have trouble with Mayorga's style, and even though I know 100% that Mayorga is do-do I just had this bad feeling about the fight and I didn't want to make a prediction and possibly jinx Shane.

You say this like you've been proven correct or something. Back when Marg first KO'd an already overrated Cintron, Mosley still had a lot left in the tank, enough to beat Margarito I'm sure. I agree that now, Margarito beats Shane but that's only because Shane is so over the hill right now and throws so few punches per rd that he could probably get outpointed by Ishe Smith if their fight went to the cards.

 

Ridiculous. Shane is a holding machine and is putrid to watch. Not only that, he fought no hopers at 135. Then, he beats DLH once and thinks he was king. Honestly, at least Roy beat James Toney and Hopkins before he refused to step up. Mosley fought DLH once and then fought shit. He was never that good and easily the worst rated p4p number ever. What horseshit. He never wanted to fight the best until AFTER Forrest exposed him and then all he proved was he was overrated losing over and over and over and over again.

 

Mosley less talented than Vargas?

Mosley is extremely talented/physically gifted IMO. It's a big reason for his success, as he's not exactly the most textbook, fundamentally sound, or intelligent fighter out there.

 

Vargas was more talented than Mosley?:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Ive heard it ALL now!

Not saying Vargas didnt have talent, but outside of RJ, and Floyd, Shane in his prime was the most talented fighter of this generation.

 

dsimon writes:

Oscar lost a lot of fights that would have made it easier to not have a footnote by his name. Including to Mosley.

 

He also fought a lot of fights against a lot of quality opponents. Wins over Quartey and Whitaker were questionable but so was his loss to Trinidad, and the rematch loss to Balco Mosley.

He's one of the top guys of this generation, and has more impressive achievements than Mosley.

 

dsimon writes:

Well on the subject of pure talent, Judah is more talented than both of them and look where it got his career. Nando had some skills that he developed coming up. Mosley always got by on speed and raw atheltiscism.

 

I would say that speed and raw athleticism is more of a "talent" than skills. You can teach Vargas the skills that he developed. One of the things I liked about Vargas is how he could do damage with short pinpoint shots. You can practice shortening up your shots and throwing them properly to do more damage.

You can't practice or teach the athleticism that Mosley was born with. If Vargas did the sloppy things that Mosley often did, he'd have had to pay more, because he wasn't born with the physical gifts that Shane was.

 

Judah is more talented than Vargas yes. But Shane? That's probably a tossup.

Speed and raw atheltiscism goes under the talent column. Skills goes under the skills column. So maybe what you meant to say is Nando had more skills than Mosley because to be honest Vargas really wasn't that talented at all. Vargas was mostly just a solid skills fighter and it was him more than Mosley who got as far as he did off
determination and grit.

 

You see, back then Cintron was KTFO the type of opponent that Shane would go the distance with...IMO Marge would have walked Shane down and pressured him till he caved in. Now he'd put Shane in a bodybag. Shane looks like garbage against a rangy guy like Forrest or even Cintron, but Kermit may not have had the mental to last.

 

Exactly, you said it yourself. Speed, athleticism come under talent.

Shane was by far more talented than Vargas, but you could argue Vargas was more skilled.

 

with the exception of roy jones, judah was arguably the most talented fighter of the last 10-15 years. judahs major flaw was he was as stupid and soft as he was talented...

 

Shane fought Winky at 154 when others treated him like he was radioactive. He also fought DLH and got the W twice, not once (though the second one was Balco-assisted). Prior to that, Shane had a great run at lightweight and he leapfrogged Jr. Welter to fight Wifredo Rivera in his first fight at Welter.

Essentially, Shane fought guys who came to fight ever since he became champ at lightweight. He also fought Cotto, who was undefeated and zooming up the P4P lists.

I disagree with you on this one.

 

When has Shane ever caved? He's 10x's tougher than fucking Cintron. In fact Shane is one of the toughest fighters to have ever laced them up. At least say you think Margs would have won the decision but Shane wasn't getting KO'd by no fucking Marg. Marg might not be able to do it today. Also Marg is a looping shot punching mofo. Shane was still good enough to beat a guy like Cruz and Estrada both of whom may not be as tough and strong as Margs but were about the same in skill level.

I'm not saying Shane definitely would have beat Margarito but there's no evidence to prove Shane definitely would have lost to him either. In other words like I said before, the Mayorga fight in no way what-so-fucking-ever proved you were right.

 

Judah has aesthetic talent. Speed, power, reflexes. He has NO other talent.

 

When it comes to boxing (and most other sports) what other talent is there?

 

Chin and stamina are the other 2 big ones. Timing and accuracy are partly talent, although they can be trained to some extent.

 

I don't think stamina is a talent. I think that comes with how hard one is working and training. I also wouldn't lump chin so much in the talent department. Even though it seems to be as god given as speed or power is, chin just doesn't seem right being called a talent to me but I could be wrong about that.

 

They are both talents, just not obviously what you'd see as talent compared to a really fast or hard punch.

Stamina is absolutely a talent. De La Hoya could train harder than anyone in the sport, and his stamina still wouldn't be close to Duran, who conversely, could eat loads, party, not train much, and still be hopping around the ring in the 15th round.

Same for chin, you either have a chin or you don't, it's a natural talent to be able to take punches.

Although again, to some extent, the training that boxers go through helps their punch resistence. For example, MMA fighters take less head shots in training, and generally have worse chins.

 

Good points all around.

 

Stamina is DEFINITELY a God-Given Talent...

A Guy like Aaron Pryor Could Party til the Early Morn, then Get Up & Outwork EVERYBODY N the Gym on a MINIMAL Amount of Sleep...

Round by Round, Very Few (if ANY) Fought as HARD as Aaron Pryor did, yet REED NEVER Saw him Even SLIGHTLY Fatigued N a Fight...

As for Chin, a LARGE Part is BRACING yourself for the Incoming (which is Why Tarver KO'ed Roy)...But a TALENTED Chin Absorbs Virtually ANY Shot, Regardless...

Wayne McCullough, Jake LaMotta & Marvelous Marvin Hagler R Examples of CHIN Talent...



REED:kidcool:

 

I view talent as anything that cannot be taught or learned. Judah lacks a great many intangibles that are as important to boxing as speed or power.

Judah has video game talent. The kind of stuff where he has 9 and 10 for those categories that kids love.

 

Good post.

 

WTF? How do you go from "I agree that now, Margarito beats Shane" to "Marg might not be able to do it today"

Hell, who even said I watched the Mayorga fight?::

So Cruz and Estrada are on the same skill level as Marge and they'd all lose to Shane, yet you say Ishe Smith would win on the cards?:notallthere: You cannot be serious.

If Marge-Shane gets made you can find me in the bets and wagers forum.

 

really:bears:

 

I honestly don't know if Shane could beat Berto or Clottey right now.

The best bet would be Clottey who is incredibly overrated. Berto to me looks like he is getting better.

 

Why is Clottey overrated? For quite some time he's been avoided by both the fighters and the press, he had monthly interviews on boxingtalk where he cried and begged to the boxing community for just one chance, it was fucking sad, and your just bitter because he made one of your fancies, Zab Judah, quit like the club fighter everyone is yet to realise that he certainly is :nono: Latinking please.