Who is/was the biggest fraud of a "Big" Puncher??

But How Many FLUSH Shots did Duran Hit Barkley w/UNTIL he Eventually Dropped him???:dunno:...

It's NOT as if he DROPPED Barkley (Who had PUTRID Defense) EARLY N the Fight...

Duran MAINTAINED his Punch Better than Most, Moving Up the Weights, but REED Would HESITATE N Calling Duran a "BIG" Puncher, as his Nickname SUGGESTS he was...

"Respectable" for CERTAIN, but Not "Big"...

REED:hammert:

 

How many former lightweights ever dropped Iran Barkley?

 

How Many did he Fight???



REED:dunno:

 

name one lightweight who scored a KD in a middleweight title fight.

Duran's not a huge puncher, but he's a solid puncher

 

A LARGE Portion of Duran's Lightweight Defenses went N 2 the LATTER Rounds...

Look, REED Ain't Comparing Duran to Sweet Pea Whittaker or Spadafora N the Punch Department, but he WASN'T a "Big" Puncher N REED's Opinion...



REED:hammert:

 

REED ISN'T Suggesting Otherwise...

REED is DISagreeing w/the Notion of Duran Being a "Big" Puncher...

F.Y.I., Iran Barkley DIDN'T Exactly Posess Jake LaMotta's Punch Resistance & Defensively, he Made MargariTO look like Willie Pep...



REED:hammert:

 

REED ISN'T Suggesting Otherwise...

REED is DISagreeing w/the Notion of Duran Being a "Big" Puncher...

F.Y.I., Iran Barkley DIDN'T Exactly Posess Jake LaMotta's Punch Resistance & Defensively, he Made MargariTO look like Willie Pep...



REED:hammert:

 

REED ISN'T Suggesting Otherwise...

REED is DISagreeing w/the Notion of Duran Being a "Big" Puncher...

F.Y.I., Iran Barkley DIDN'T Exactly Posess Jake LaMotta's Punch Resistance & Defensively, he Made MargariTO look like Willie Pep...



REED:hammert:

 

REED ISN'T Suggesting Otherwise...

REED is DISagreeing w/the Notion of Duran Being a "Big" Puncher...

F.Y.I., Iran Barkley DIDN'T Exactly Posess Jake LaMotta's Punch Resistance & Defensively, he Made MargariTO look like Willie Pep...



REED:hammert:

 

Depends on what you consider a "big" puncher I guess. Was Duran's power on the level of a Tyson, Jackson, Hearns, or G-man's? No. But then again, VERY few are.

He was still a big puncher IMO. He had extremely heavy hands, and combined them with excellent handspeed and timing.

 

Tyson. If you look at his career, which "iron" chinned fighters did he actually knock out? Not old man rusty Larry Holmes who was retired for 2 years before Don King threw a few million in his face to fight Tyson.
Tyson never KO'd anybody who hadn't already been KO'd. He couldn't even dent Holyfield's chin in 2 fights.
In hindsight, Tyson's whole career was about flashy knockouts as opposed to legitimate opposition. Kinda like Tua. You build a rep of flashy knockouts over sub par opposition and then become his enigma of being a supreme puncher. If he was all that, he'd have stopped Holyfield after landing about 55 flush chin shots.

Kermit Cintron is another. KOs over who? He steps in with Margarito and Margarito is treating Cintron's power as if he's being hit by a fly swatter. LOL!

 

Jesus Christ! Now simpletons are calling Tyson a fraud puncher. Next thing ya know someone will say Roy's hands werent that fast.

If theres any puncher in history who's power is NOT overrated, its Tyson.

 

Yeah. I have heard it all now. Not only that Tyson sure as fuck hurt Holyfield in the first fight. Tyson has a one punch puncher is overrated, but he could punch.


As for Duran, he is like Chavez, Julio Caesar Senior for the smartasses. He was not a one punch guy, but he hurt people bad over the course of a fight like Duran. Like, you said, it depends on the definition of puncher. I can see Reed's point although I don't understand why it is a distinction worth having.

Julian Jackson is really the only fighter I have ever seen who could kayo a guy with literally a single shot. He hit guys to the chin and they were gone. He hit about as hard as a person could hit with a punch.

 

Oh he could punch for sure. Good power. But his power was based on timing and quickness. It wasn't a punch where if he swung, he'd KO you automatically. How do you explain the guy smashing Holyfield's jaw bone 55 times in two fights and NOT even rocking him?

 

Ignore Hanzy...

He's Taken his Customary ATTENTION WHORE Tactics to a Whole 'NOTHER Level...


REED:boohoo:

 

Tyson never hurt Holyfield in either fight. The only time he even remotely surprised Holyfield was the opening round punch which caught Holyfield off balance. Even then, Holyfield shook it off like nothing and then brought it.

 

Dude, he BADLY Rocked Holyfield w/the VERY FIRST Punch he EVER Hit him w/...

Bell Rings (to Start the 1st Fight) & WHAM!!!...Tyson Hit & ROCKED Holyfield...


REED:boohoo:

 

That is not true. He hurt Holyfield to the body too. Anyway, that wasn't the same Tyson. I like how all of Ali'slosses are excused and blamed on his layoff, even a loss to Doug Jones a year before he beat Liston. Ali could still box in gyms with anybody he wanted. Tyson was in prison for years and couldn't train. He was not the same puncher or fighter then although he probably never beats Holyfield or Lewis prime for Prime.

 

Against Tyson, Holyfield WROTE the "Hit & Hold" Handbook that John Ruiz & Ricky Hatton Eventually Took to Heart...

If Tyson COULDN'T Hurt Holyfield, he WOULDN'T have Been Concerned w/HOLDING him...


REED:mj:

 

I said he was a good puncher. Not an "Almighty Lord have Mercy" type puncher. :: Too many instances of Tyson landing super clean full power shots and NOT dropping his opponent. Sorry Reed. You can argue without resorting to name-calling and disrespect.

 

N the 4th or 5th Round of the 1st Fight, Tyson Landed a Hook-Uppercut Combo (Body then Head)...Both LEFT Hands, if REED's Not Mistaken...

& Holyfield IMMEDIATELY Backed the Fuck AWAY from Tyson...


REED:mj:

 

Holding is besides the point. If Tyson lands 55 shots to a man's jawbone, based on the reputation of Tyson's power, Holyfield should've dropped quickly. But he didn't. And even Bob Sheridan who is the BIGGEST Tyson groupie after Bobby Czyz was wondering why Holyfield was not buckling after Tyson nailed a homerun on Holyfield's jaw with his signature punch.

 

Then Cease & Desist w/the ATTENTION WHORE Bullshit...


REED:mj:

 

And that was it. And it was a surprise punch and even then Holyfield lost his footing but senses completely intact. Tyson couldn't capitalize at all because Holyfield shook it off quickly. Tyson landed a punch with half that power to the shoulder of some scrub named Tillman and KO'd him. Although who really knows if that scrub came to actually fight or just take a fall and leave with his cheque. LOL!

 

1st of All, WHY R U Clinging to "55 Punches to a Man's Jawbone"???...Tyson DID NOT Land 55 FLUSH Punches to Holyfield's Grill...N Fact, REED is Hard Pressed to Think of 10 Times N 2 Fights where Tyson Hit Holy FLUSH N his Grill...

2nd, The Holding IS the Point...Holyfield RARELY, if EVER Blatantly Held...Unless he was Fighting Mike Tyson, That Is...

He KNEW Mike COULD Hurt him w/Single Shots, so he HIT then HELD...

REED:hammert:

 

He backed away 3 steps and then Tyson went for a straight right and Holyfield dodged. Which again shows the strength of the Holyfield chin.
Tyson's a very good puncher. Although he had to contend with a great chin that night.

 

The key to beating Tyson was to hold, neutralize his offense and make him reset. That's the flaw in the Cus D'amato routine. Tyson was completely helpless in a clinch. And he couldn't fight going backwards.
Tyson was a master intimidator. He could scare guys into submission before the fight even started.

 

If Tyson WASN'T a "BIG" Puncher, then WHY the Emphasis on HOLDING him???...


REED:dunno:

 

If you were a pro boxer Reed, you'd understand strategy I'm sure and which one to employ against which opponent. The holding strategy is the right one. That's how you beat those D'amato fighters. Tyson WAS a big puncher but I think overrated to some degree. Then again, Holyfield had a world class chin.

 

dsimon writes:

Not exactlyHanzy. You know how Holy beat Tyson? he used good Ju Jutsu. He pushed against Tyson's center so Tyson could not get any power on his shots, he learned from his trainer how to do that throughout and frustrated Tyson with it.

But your position on Tyson, while I don't agree with it, it tenable.

As much as I hate to say it... watch the tapes, they don't lie with Mike, his speed can be seen and his punch was such that when guys knew it was coming they still went down hard which is phenominal.