Your new p4p top 5 list

1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Marquez
4. Joe Calzaghe
5. Kelly Pavlik

Or should Joe Calzaghe be higher than Nard on the list since he beat Nard?

 

Why should something insignificant like that get in the way of a #1 ranking?

 

1. Manny Pacquiao

2. Ivan Calderon

3. Paul Williams

4. Arthur Abraham

5. Juan Manuel Marquez

 

Calzaghe HAS to be #1 my friend..HAS TO BE!

1. Calzaghe
2. Pacquiao
3. Hopkins
4. Marquez
5. NOT PAVLIK

 

I'm not real clear on the p4p criteria regarding Hopkins.

Are we to consider Hopkins and the other fighters if they mythically fought at the same weight, or they mythically moved up from 160 to fight him?

 

This is getting old, man. Jr weights exist now, so whats a couple of pounds difference to a man as young and BIG as Pavlik?

 

1. Pacquiao
2. Calzaghe
3. Hopkins
4. Marquez
5. probably some midget under 122

 

After November 8th, Roy hits the top 5!!!:mj:

 

NO he doesn't..

 

I'm just curious what weight class Hopkins is being ranked at, p4p.

Is he being ranked as a light heavyweight?

Because there's plenty of top light heavyweights he hasn't fought since moving into the division.

 

Weightclass? P4P? Thats kind of what P4P is about; forgetting weight classes.

 

Right, but the thing is most boxers are confined to fighting in the divisions separated by those little numbers on the weight scale.

They don't all belong to the cabal that is Golden Boy Promotions where they can pick which weight suits them best and then continually get lighter-weight fighters to move up to meet them there.

And it matters in today's sport, where weigh-ins come early and making target weights has become a science.

Chad Dawson fights light heavyweights...and has beaten a solid class of them int he past two years. He's done more against 175 pounders in the two plus years he's been at the weight than Hopkins has.

But he's only fighting guys like Harding, Adamek, Johnson and Tarver.

Hopkins clearly lost to a light heavyweight (who was also moving up) the last time he fought one...which is probably why it's the first one he's fought since he beat Tarver.

 

Most boxers being "confined to weight classes" is something that has absolutely no business in a discussion on a topic designed to ignore weight classes entierly.

You're a whiny bitch today, MK. I'm not into this.

 

In theory, that's great, but Hopkins is fighting in a whole different realm of the sport.

170 pound divisions where the opponents are 160/168 pounders aren't circumstances most boxers fight in.

Chad Dawson would probably look great if he could fight middleweights at 170...but he doesn't have that luxury.

I'm not being whiny...maybe I'm being a bitch though.

Either way, I respect the hell out of Hopkins but I'm just calling it the way I see it.

De La Hoya wouldn't be getting the kind of free pass Hopkin's has gotten with Wright and Pavlik...and I'm no DLH fan.

 

Yes he does. Motherfucker dominated 168 like no other before him, beat Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins and is UNDEFEATED.

the fuck is wrong with you? :dunno:

 

Yeah, I had Calzaghe #1 after that fight....before the gathered media decided during Pacquao-Diaz that it was time to annint Pacman as PBF's successor.

I certainly think Hopkins showed enough on Saturday to shed some new light on Calzaghe's performance to some who might have needed it.

But whatever.

 

Manny Pac defeated/dominated/KO'ed great/hall of fame fighters at 126/130....and those guys were larger than him..he was the one moving up in weight. Lacy nor Kessler could carry Marquez speedos..or Barrera or Morales spit bucket...

Hopkins victor was good for Calzaghe...but close....similar to Pac W. over Marquez..(though he lose those fight imo)...but has Calzaghe blasted great fighters out like Pacquiao did Barrera and MOrales?...nah..he ain't build like that..

 

I respect the case you have put forth, but I see the way Calzaghe has dominated and the fact that he was the first to beat both Kessler and Lacy as well as how he managed to beat the GREAT Bernard Hopkins (albeit in a close fight)..and STILL be undefeated to underline all of this...as meaning more.

I therefore respectfully agree to disagree....

 

1 - Marquez - Stepped up big time at 135 against Casa, arguably beat Pacman twice comfortably

2 - Calzaghe - Big win against Nard, undefeated, amazing fighter.. but lacks an extended depth of competition to prove he is #1

3 - Pacqiauo - Dominates everyone not named Marquez (or much bigger like DLH)

4 - Hopkins - Has some great wins recently against Wright, Tarver and Pavlik, but recent losses to JT and JC prove he isn't the top guy

5 - DLH - Has fought almost everyone, only has losses to top 5 ALL TIME Mayweather, big p4p #4 Nard, and other losses like Shane are all very close or debatable, most thought he won. Heck even the Mayweather fight was debatable. Say what you want but DLH is still a top p4p fighter and would wipe guys like Cotto or Marg, way too much skill and speed for them. Don't forget how he shit on Vargas and Mayorga like no one has shat on them before.


I'd like to see someone argue with this list (ok I can see some semi-valid arguments on #5, but 1 through 4 are solid).

 

::::::

 

I think it's a little difficult to say that Calzaghe lacks extended depth while arguing that Marquez does.

 

Marquez simply cannot be at number 1 (cannot be ahead of Pacquaio for one thing) and Oscar can in no way be on that list. Abismal list.

 

#1 and #2 are a tough call, but they are definately a cut above the 3 and 4 guys Nard and Pacman, proves in their respective head to head fights among other things.

 

Marquez can be and is at #1. The fact is he proved to be a better boxer than Pacman, twice. In my opinion, and most peoples opinions he could have won the first fight and definately should have won the second fight. He was robbed against John and aside from that he has a flawless record.. he packs dynamite and incredible skill and talent into a simple package. I would not pick against him with anyone near his weight class... Put up a poll.. I think most would pick him over Pacman and that makes him p4p #1, best at his class and best overall.

Oscar is solid, he never gets dominated. The only guys with clear victories over him are #4 p4p guy who is MUCH larger anyways.. and the former prp#1 considered one of the best boxers in the world who he fought a 7-5 type fight with becuase the fact is.. DLH is a top p4p guy.

 

Honestly, if you just left the judges decisions and announcers opinions out of it and just judged fighters on what you saw in the ring, I might agree with you about Calzaghe and Marquez.

But it's a tough argument with Marquez given the way the decision in the Pac rematch went.

I doubt we ever seen them fight again, which is unfortunate.

 

I think the p4p question is really all about leaving the judges and announcers out of it, and seeing what we see.. who the better boxer is.. who should have won.. who has proved they CAN win against all comers, against all styles.. not just who won last weekend.

 

You really can't forget weightclasses in boxing. Of course if your only criteria for ranking them is skill level then it makes sense. But I do agree that Hopkins can't really be the leading p4p guy since he isn't the best fighter of any division

 

Just goes to show you how disjointed P4P has become. Nobody can tell me what the hell it means anymore.

 

its hard to rank guys like calzaghe or hopkins above dawson when I'd pick dawson to whup either of them convincingly.

 

Nobody had the p4p list, stuck to him like any other fighter, like Floyd Mayweather,.. so I think we should just give it to him,..Floyd can take that list with him into extinction because, frankly,.. p4p lists are empty populist pieces of shit. :shit: