The DLH that fought PBF V The DLH that fought Pac-Man.

Was there that much difference between the two?
-I may have to re-watch the PBF fight, but the 2 versions looked quite similar from memory. Neither fought on their toes-more content to stalk flat-footed. Both had similar handspeed. Both didn't use the jab much at all.

The one who fought Pac had much more offense come his way, whereas the one who fought PBF could throw a lot more punches as he was fighting somebody who was more defensive minded & content to pot-shot.

The one who fought pac-man could not possibly pace himself, as he was getting pummeled, whereas the one who fought PBF had more opportunity to pace himself.

Thoughts?

 

It was the same Oscar.

Make no mistake though, Oscar lost his legs YEARS ago.

The flatfootedness didn't start with the Floyd fight, he's been fighting flat footed for years, and abandoning the jab in recent years.

HIs handspeed looked the same in both fights.

Like you say, he had FAR more incoming from Pacman, and ironically, more movement too.

Against Oscar, floyd sort of moved when it was necessary, he was fairly economical with his movement. Pacman was more or less moving constantly, Oscar almost never had a stationary target to hit.

That's part of how Manny shut him down, Oscar simply couldn't hit him.

 

Same Oscar..Floyd gave Oscar opportunities to land punches because he was on the ropes and wasn't throwing a whole lot of punches in that fight just pot shots when Oscar was opened...Manny on the other hand didn't give Oscar anything but that how Manny is ,he gives his all without any fear.

 

what does this do to Floyd's legacy? opcorn:

 

not quite the same guy. a year and a half older as well as a dozen pounds lighter.

 

yeah overlooking the weight difference seems downright criminal here. Oscar had a lot more in the tank, especially powerwise.

There was a moment late in the fight when Oscar hit Manny with a power shot and Manny laughed it off like it came from Morales or Marquez. That might have been very different vs. the 160 lbs version of Oscar.

DLH was very WEAK, yesterday! :nono:

 

Yep.

 

No idea.

Didn't even know 'Money' drove a Subaru.

 

A dozen pounds? Surely you don't really believe he was only 147 on fightnight?

Did anyone actually see this same day weigh in? Or was this simply what Oscar said he weighed?

 

::::

 

I'm not talking so much about what you know statistically but rather what you saw in his performance.
I don't know whether you saw the fight Neil, but if you did, how did you think his performance compared in comparison to his performance against PBF?
To me, his overall style, footwork & handspeed seemed the same, & if there was a difference in his stamina, that was because he was getting the tar beaten out of him.

 

Same LOOKING things performed by a 154 pounder > Same looking things performed by a 145 pounder...

 

it did seem fishy to me personally. as well as ridiculous and stupid. then again I don't really see the advantage for hbo to make it up

roachs point was interesting: that delahoya had been starving himself so long that his stomach shrank and he couldn't even gorge himself to gain back his typical post weigh in weight.

 

It was not the same guy. Oscar managed to win rounds against Floyd. Against Manny he stood around and got punched in the face.

 

That's the problem.
You're looking @ apples & apples and trying to convince yourself that you're actually seeing apples & oranges.
If he had been on his toes, faster of hand/foot against PBF you'd be justified.
Or if he recieved comparable punishment but took it better.

Thing is he looked the same.
Difference was that he was in one fight against a guy that is a negative low-risk pot-shotter, & the other against a balls-to-the wall offensive machine who was out there to take his heart.
And they weren't like that just because of DLH-They both always fight that way.
DLH;
Looked the same as he did against PBF
Manny:
Looked the same against DLH as he always does
PBF:
Looked the same against DLH as he always does.

...So what are we to conclude?
DLH looked the same because he was the same, just in with a different fighter?
or
DLH looked the same but was actually different and that's the reason Pac looked like he always looks anyway?

 

Or maybe he was in one fight against a guy that is a negative low-risk pot-shotter, & the other against a balls-to-the wall offensive machine who was out there to take his heart.

 

dsimon writes:

This oscar was a lot more morally comprimised than the Oscar that fought Floyd and had the need for some more cash apparently. This Oscar had less material weight but his conscience weighed him down immensely for this fight. Because of De La Hoya's selfish throw my friend Ron King will be sleeping under a bridge tonight.... If there is a bridge in Vegas... and not one of them viaducts... Ron will need Blankets for the cold (said in a Tom Waits voice). And all those guys who wanted one for the Mexicans? they will be asking Ron to pass the Sterno! :doh:::

 

If only simply saying it made it true...

I'm curious as to your reasoning.
-To be able to detect a 30% increase in "shot-ness" I would assume you'd have some pretty good criteria beyond the fact that you saw him get beat up...

BTW, just 4 the record-I picked DLH & I wanted him to win & I wrote prior to the fight that I was concerned about the weight-loss.
I just have to be honest with myself-I will watch the PBF fight again, but fom memory, I saw the same guy that I saw against PBF, in there with Manny.

 

I just re-watched bits & pieces of both fights & honestly the most I could say is that DLH may have been half a beat slower pulling the trigger, but I'm not even convinced of that.
Overall DLH looked as though he threw better combos & moved better @ times against PBF, but you've got to look at what Pac did as opposed to what PBF did.
PBF was more of a stationary target, offering little in offense, whereas Manny was CONSTANTLY turning DLH & moving in & out firing blistering combo's, while turning, as opposed to the occasional pot-shot. DLH just could not get set.
As far as DLH standing there & taking a beating-A lot of people are talking about how mystified they were & DLH in rnds 7&8.
What I saw was a guy who had been raped to the body & just didn't have any ability to do anything other than move away & defend.

 

Not saying he went from white to black but he clearly deteriorated. Pushing himself to go to a division he hasn't been in years and coming even lower than ever when he fought there at this stage (Old and inactive) it's obvious played a part. All credit to Manny, fought a great fight and did what he had to but it's undeniable: DLH doesn't have anything left.

 

It's obvious that DLH is a shadow of what he was in his prime.
I'll soften my position slightly, just because It's hard to imagine that what you mentioned would make no difference at all, I guess.
However based on what I saw I really think that it was more what Pac-Man did & the version that Manny beat up was not that different from the version I saw against PBF, & that Oscar was not going to see the final bell against Manny regardless of weight-drain.

 

and we are saying the weight drain had an effect... What's the problem here?? At 160lbs he would have been much less fazed by the incoming and might have lasted the distance, it's really not an outrageous conception... :dunno:


That being said, Pacman handled him better than Floyd and beat him more convincingly of course, his style is more attractive and decisive than Floyd's.

 

I didn't think so.

Legs? Yes...but his legs (and the bounce in them) have been gone for years.

But in terms of his hands and reflexes, he looked slower, wider, less crisp this time around. Quite a bit so.

And don't underestimate the effect of an additional 18 months when you're only fighting 1x/year and are 35.

Look at the Forbes fight (where DLH weighed 150, 4 lbs. less than vs. PBF) for a better comparison.

He commented to Merchant "I did this to myself" just before the official interviews....I think we know what he meant (and, of course, being in the ring with the boxing welterweight equivalent of a wolverine).

Peace.

 

The difference was insignificant because there is nothing in that fight that could lead anyone to believe that a year and a half ago DLH had a chance to land anything that could win him the fight.

 

I agree with this.
I think that it's reasonable to make the assumption that weight-loss would be a factor, & you can look @ the fight through the prism of that assumption & conclude certain things.
However, without that prism, there was very little difference, & IMO the difference was not very significant as ESK said.
Any difference had a LOT more to do with the difference in opponent than the difference in weight

 

Whether or not DLH has changed or not is IMO not as relevant as the opponents style themselves.

Mayweather invites his opponent to try and hit him allowing DLH to throw punches even if the majority are ineffective.

Manny's defense is a blitzkrieg of punches thrown with speed, precision and intensity and as a result of a shit game plan , DLH was completely shell shocked. The ONE weapon he needed he didn't use. The Jab. And I'm shocked it wasn't in his game plan as that was the weapon that helps to defeat a guy like Pac.

He went into this fight with one thought. I'm the bigger man , I'm going to man handle and beat him up. Only David Pacquiao wasn't having any and the stones that were in his fists cracked Goliathoya and his idiotic fight plan upside the head til he was dead.

Notice in the fight , time and again in the little bits where DLH pumps a stiff jab , he controls Pac. He backs him off and disrupts his rythm. His trainer should have been screaming for him to keep pumping the jab. I'm betting now , the jab was never even a key part of the arsenal in their training camp game plan. A catastophic mistake.

 

i can't believe people are saying it was the same Oscar......the difference was so stark......if it was the same Oscar, then it is a damn miracle ......by draining the body to that extent, keeping it there and then only putting on 2 or 3 lbs between weigh in and the fight, he didn't give his body a chance.....and of course, age played a part too

 

DLH vs Mayweather was much better than the one that fought PACQUIAO...

DLH jab was non-existing vs. Pacquiao......20-30 seconds would go by where Pacquiao would just stay outside thinking of coming in..and DLH would do nothing..just follow him around....no jab..nothing...