REED, regarding Pavlik

Do you think he lacks heart?

I noticed you wrote this in the Nard - Adamek thread...

At the time I didn't give it much thought, was too busy being shocked and wowed by Nard's performance.

I guess one way of looking at it would be that Pavlik was just utterly confused by Hopkins, and unable to do anything with him.

But looking back, there is also the possibility that he pulled a baby bull and just sort of quit mentally.

So do you think he did quit mentally, and subsequently lacks heart/guts?

 

REED, Most Fightbeaters AND Pavlik Himself EXPECTED Bernard to have Early Rounds SUCCESS N that Fight...What was UNexpected was how EASILY he Hit Pavlik & the Fact that he HURT Pavlik Early...Can't Recall Which Round, but it was Somewhere Around the 2nd, 3rd or 4th...

Pavlik NEVER Stopped Trying, but REED Got the Sense that he REALIZED he was Flirting w/a KO, by Wildly Charging Into Bernard All Night...Kelly Pavlik DOESN'T Lack Heart, but REED NEVER Got the Sense that he was Going for BROKE, After it Became APPARENT that he'd Need to KO Bernard to Win the Fight...REED Thinks Adamek would RATHER Get KO'ed than Get COMPLETELY SCHOOLED as Pavlik was...

REED's Still Very Much a HUGE Fan of Pavlik's, but Dude's Aura Took a MAJOR Hit N the Bernard Fight...LOSING Is 1 thing, but Being NON-Competitive???....& the Thing is, Pavlik's Gonna have to Face Abraham or an ELITE Supermiddle to RESTORE Some of that DULLED Luster...




REED:hammert:

 

Yeah. It coouldn't possibly have had anything to do with Pavlik's bronchitis or tendonitis. It's a question of his heart. I gotcha.

Pavlik is not a one dimensional fighter. He knows how to cut off the ring and he can deal with angles.

What he couldn't deal with was Hopkins' nearly criminal tactics. Hopkins has been holding and hitting opponents his entire career, and we all know his favorite tactic is the low-blow when the referee is on the other side.

When you're dealing with a fighter who treats the sport like it's street-fighting, the only way you're going to beat him is with superior hand-speed.

Hand-speed absolutely freezes Hopkins and is why Taylor was able to beat him twice, why RJJ beat him, and why to this day, I'd probably pick RJJ to beat him.

Pavlik just doesn't have the hand-speed to beat a guy who rides you like a monkey all night and breaks every rule in the book. Especially when he was sick with bronchitis and had tendonitis.

The best display of Hopkins' dirty tactics was his absolutely unwatchable fight with Keith Holmes. He mugged Holmes like a criminal. If you're okay with that and like fighters with mentalities like that, fine. But in my opinion, it doesn't count for shit.

And don't even bring up Hopkins versus Wright. God what a mess Hopkins made of that fight.

About the only impressive performance that Hopkins has had in recent times was his beat-down of Tarver. And that was due primarily to Tarver's being a south-paw and being a sitting duck for Hopkins' lead right hand (followed by a clinch or a push on the other hand).

If Hopkins were forced to play by the rules, he wouldn't be half the fighter he's perceived to be.

And I won't even touch on the subject of steroids which Hopkins is and probably always has been as long as he's been a top fighter engaged in.

I can't wait for him to either retire or be knocked out.

As for Adamek, I think he's a lot stronger than Pavlik and hits harder and will be able to push Hopkins off of him when Hopkins no doubt tries to hold and hit him in every which way including the crotch.

And I think when you're talking about a fighter who's been knocking people out at 200 pounds, Hopkins could (and may have) the best chin in the game and still be blown away by one punch.

Hopkins thought process is probably: well, I've been getting away with breaking every rule in the book and as a result I've managed to beat a lot of good fighters. Why should Adamek be any different?

I'm not so sure he's right about that. But if Hopkins can withstand Adamek's best shot, you can bet he'll stink out a decision because like I said, the only thing that terrifies and freezes Hopkins is a hand-speed deficit. And in this case, he'll be the one with the faster hands on top of everything else (his illegal tactics, apparently granite chin, large frame, and in my opinion chronic abuse of steroids).

 

You're really something Double. You basically take your opinions and asumptions as facts and expect us to take your seriously. Yada yada I saw Cotto's fight on HBO and I saw 10 seconds on how they were putting wraps on his hands and since I don't like Cotto I'm gonna go ahead and say that he wraps ilegally his hands, he cheats. Now fellas, can Cotto beat a decent fighter without his cheating ways or is he a complete bum? What about Hopkins? He's known to live a super clean life and keeps in excelent shape but I don't like him and he looks ripped so HE'S A STERIOD CHEAAAAAT! Now that he's been busted and his legacy has been tarnished do you think he could even beat a fringe contender? I think Julio Gonzales would KO him!

The fact that you're super serious makes it all the more disturbing.

 

Agreed there. Despite Hopkins greatness, I think Kelly really failed there.

 

And I'm naive for believing Leonard had a detached retina? ::

 

I agree with alot of what you had to say on the subject of Hopkins apart from two things,.. he DOES NOT have a granite chin,... a running, shoulder rolling, counter-punching, clincher,.. rarely ever gets hit in the head with solid shots,... the very few times Hopkins has been tagged by smaller opponents, he hasn't taken the shots well at all,...in some cases, his 'bitch-face' pops up, and he tries to get his opponent disqualified or he leaps out of the ring and pretends to be injured, imagine someone like Margarito who's used his skull as his guard for 15 years, putting his thigh, the length of his back and brain stem infront of anything that slightly resembles a bit of forwards movement?,... we rarely see him effected by head shots out of a 10,000 flush range,...comparitively,..Hopkins has been hit with about 9 good shots over the course of his career amongst mini-men,...

Also must disagree that Hopkins turns boxing matches into a street-fight,.. he has filthy cowardly 'tricks' to impliment inside the safe confines of a boxing ring that everyone up to the HBO commentators and referee's seem to glorify, let alone 'boxing4real' american sportswriters,.. a street-fight,..say like MMA.. would be Hopkins WORST NIGHTMARE,... imagine him showing a suplex specialist his back?.. he'd be deliciously slammed onto the back of his neck..:crafty:

 

dsimon writes:

yes kelly needs to fight the smurf. For the reasons Reed mentioned and because Abraham has proved that he is a live dog.

Double your understanding of Hopkins is ignorant. What people do not like about Bernard is that he brings another dimension to the game that fighters lack now a days... the inside game. Thats how brawlers dealt with the pretty boy of old Double it is how La motta could fight the great one and stand in there and even win a match against. Its part of the game.

 

That's why Doub CAN'T B Taken Seriously...He just ARBITRARILY Decides Which Excuses R VALID or Not...



REED::

 

"I don't blame Double L, I blame his parents and teachers" for not teaching him to think logically. - Terrell Buckley.

 

I've never made claims with respect to Hopkins' steroid use that it's anything but an opinion of mine. I'm fully entitled to much such an allegation whether it hurts your feelings or not. And secondly, all you do by dismissing Cotto's extemely skinned gloves, which are a fact because we can see them with our own eyes, is to expose your own ignorance as to the impact that it has on a fighter's punching power.

 

No. You're naive for believing that it was the motivation for his repeated retirements. Fighters return from detached retinas all of the time without conveniently retiring for years when he's expected and called upon to take on the likes of McCallum, Curry or a prime Hagler.

It's a fact SRL suffered a detached retina. I didn't mean to say you were naive for believing that he suffered one. What you're naive is to believe that that's why he retired. Especially in light of his ill-advised and frankly dangerous comeback fights against the likes of Norris and Camacho. It's not like SRL proved to be some ultra-conscious careful fighter when it came to his health. He just happened to have a convenient excuse to duck what would've been the toughest competition he would've had his whole career, given the timing and circumstances.

 

So ironic that you would cite such a quote little Neil. If only I had the time or inclination to expose the degree and amount of illogical thought you've assualted this forum with.

 

Ok.

 

I disagree. It's one thing to close a talent gapwith pressure and determination -see Kirkland. It's another to ride your opponent like a monkey, jump out of the ring as Kaua as alluded to, and most of all, Hopkins' favorite tactic which is completely illegal, and that is to hold and hit.There's a rason holding and hitting is illegal. And the fact that the rule is not enforced in the case of Hopkins should make it no surprise that he's able to beat fighters who have twice the skills that he does.

 

You're full of shit. I don't even know what the fuckyour post means (not uncommon when itcomes to you). Unlike you, I like the sport of boxing, period. That affords me an objectivity that a PBF dick-licker like you could only dream of.

 

REED Contemplated Saying "U Can't even SPELL 'Objective', Doub", but Considering your ADMITTED Level of Drunkeness, that's Tooooooooooo EASY...

The FACT is YOU'RE a PavLICKER Based on him Being from YOUR Area, so Fuck YOUR BULLSHIT Reasoning about his "Bronchitis", "Tendonitis", Menstrual Cycle or Whatever Other EXCUSE U're Clinging to @ the Moment...

Sugar Ray Leonard Risked PERMANENT BLINDNESS, yet that's NOT as Good of an Excuse as "Bronchitis"???...

Bottom Line, U're a HIGH, DRUNKEN DUMBFUCK, Dude...U're the Booger Eating Kid on the SHORT Bus that EVERYBODY Picks On, for Shits & Giggles...A Mod Actually CONSIDERED BANNING Your Ass for Perpetual Pugilistic STUPIDITY....

Nuff Said...

REED:hammert:

 

seriously double's in a downward spiral. he must be striving to achieve new levels of absurdity with each post.

 

:atu:

you guys live in a small world. each and every post of yours screams, "Not only am I not vert smart, but by today's standards me level of education is shameful."

you're a dinasaour in today's society - both of you. useless is my guess.

 

I agree. This wasn't Tua - Lewis, but certainly Kelly could have, and probably should have tried harder. It was his undefeated record on the line too, I would have thought he would have gone for broke a bit more especially after the halfway stage, when he must have known his chances of winning a decision were 0.

So although he doesn't completely lack heart, I think he did bitch up a little bit against Hopkins.

Part of it WAS just him looking utterly bemused, and like he didn't have a clue what to do against Hopkins' style, which is why I refrain from saying he outright does lack heart/guts.

 

Pavlik takes a whooping for 12 rounds, never quits or stops trying and now the guy lacks heart?

Fuck no! He ain't no Juan Diaz. He pulled his ass up off the canvas after nearly being OUT against Taylor, weathers the storm and beats Taylors ass. Questions about his heart should have been answered right there.

 

Agreed. It was Bernard's style more than anything preventing Pavlik from "going for broke". It's not as Pavlik was just getting out-slicked by a cutesy type. He was getting hammered by a lot of heavy shots as well as out-boxed. Another thing people forget is everybod knew Nard could provide problems for Pavlik, but they figured Kelly's constant pressure would wear down the older man as the fight went into the later rounds.

I think Pavlik was banking on that happening as well but it didn't.

 

What's awesome here is that Double is putting down other posters' intelligence and level of education, but while doing so he has managed to misspell "dinosaur".

Dude...you make it all too easy sometimes. ::

Maybe it's just me, but if I was going to insult someone in the manner in which you just tried, I would at least spell-check my post in order to avoid looking like a jackass.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

 

It's like Shooting FISH In a Barrel, Isn't It???....


REED::

 

ha ha ha ha. this is funny if i'm interpreting it correctly. you do know the word objectivity, right? and you do know that it's spelled the way i've spelled it, correct. and that had i used the word objective, as your post seems to suggest i should've, that it would've been grammatically incorrect? assuming you know this, what are you referring to?

 

The HARDEST Thing for REED to Accept about Pavlik-Hopkins was that Bernard Actually THREW MORE Punches than Pavlik...If U had Told REED AHEAD of Time that Bernard would OUTWORK Pavlik, REED Would've Thought U were Fucking CRAZY...

Sick, Cautious or Whatever, there's NOfuckingEXCUSE for Bernard OUTWORKING Pavlik that Night...


REED:nono:

 

Yep. I thought about showing him the error of his ways regarding Leonard and his detached retina and available competition, but it would just be wasted keystrokes. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
I mean...this IS the guy who insists Leonard was nothing but a runner and a "grappler" despite the evidence to the contrary.<o></o>

 

REED was Referring to the Fact that U're a DIPSHIT, Dipshit...It's COMICAL when YOU whip Out your Little Red Pen & Start Critiquing Posts for Grammatical Errors & Misspelling, Only to BOTCH SIMPLE Ass Words like DINOSAUR or TONGUE...

"Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha"...Yep, U're the Forum's Source of COMEDY Alright....



REED:hammert:

 

Yep. I figured Pavlik's punch output would drop in that fight, (as does everybody's vs Nard) but never did i think he would throw less in total.

 

spelling is something you learn how to do in elementary school. it's hardly a proxy for a person's degree of education, and it certainly isn't one for his intelligence.

it is ironic. but it doesn't contradict my point which is that some people live in bigger worlds than others. and inevitably communication between the two is going to create frustration and confusion among those living in the smaller one.

i also don't punctuate my sentences. does that bring into question my level of education or intelligence? no. because you know damn well i just don't feel the need to push the shift key, just like i didn't feel the need to spell check my post.

it's not a damn spelling bee. and remember also that the topic of intelligence was never one that i initiated. it's always been in response to so many of the bums and simpletons on this board calling me retarded or dumb when they have no idea what they're talking about half the time except when their conversation is confined to their simple little world. only there would anyone call me a retard based on the posts i've made.

it's almost as if a child is calling an adult an idiot because he can't comprehend the concepts or theories the adult is referring to.

i think it's natural for a dumb person to call someone dumb when they're without the ability to understand that person's point. it's not unlike the biggotry of our ancestors who because of their ignorance and inability to communicate with Native Americans made the assumption they were savages and intellectually inferior. the next thing you know, the so-called savages are teaching the settlers how to grow corn and catch fish.