So Cheato fought Mosley without illegal wraps and Cotto WITH illegal wraps???

YOU Keep CLINGING to "Plaster of Paris", but what was REPORTED is that the Inserts had a "PLASTER LIKE SUBSTANCE" On them (In ADDITION to the Dried Blood)...They were WET & 1 Fell Out of EACH of Margarito's Handwraps, when Nazim Richardson Requested a RE-Wrap...

Not Really Sure Why U'RE Nitpicking this when it was ALL WIDELY REPORTED Immediately After the Hearing...


REED:hammert:

 

Why do I keep CLINGING to plaster of paris, uh maybe this is why:dunno:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4020190


A California Department of Justice senior criminalist who inspected the wrappings under a stereomicroscope and with an X-ray fluorescence spectrometer determined the wraps contained sulfur and calcium, according to a document obtained by the Times. Those two elements, with the addition of oxygen, make plaster of Paris.

The FACT that they were wet, STRONGLY indicates that this was NEW plaster of paris that had never hardened before, thus, never been used before.

Are you still stupid enough to believe he used the same handwraps vs Cotto?

 

Why, Oh WHY Would People TESTIFY UNDER OATH that the Plaster Inserts had "DRIED BLOOD" on them if that WASN'T the Case???:dunno:...& Why would Practically EVERY LEGITIMATE BOXING MEDIA Source (MaxBoxing, BoxingScene, Friday Night Fights, etc.) SPEAK Of "Plaster Inserts w/DRIED BLOOD on them????....

The "DRIED BLOOD" is a CLEAR-CUT INDICATOR of Prior Usage, Dude...Not Really Sure why this is Soooooooo IMPORTANT To U, but the TESTIMONY & INVESTIGATION is what SEALED Margarito's Fate...If ANY Of What U're Saying is True, WHY Didn't Margarito's LAWYERS Pick Up On ANY of what U're Suggesting???...



REED::

 

HOLD UP!!!!

This report states that the plaster was hardened, but all I've ever heard is that they were wet, even REED just mentioned that they were wet.

WTF!!!!!!!!

 

REED again, I'm not saying there wasn't dried blood, I just figured since everyone reported that they were wet, that A. it was new plaster of paris, or B. it had gone throught the recyling process and it would impossible to be Cott's blood.

That is all.

 

So WTF!!!?? Were they already hardened or not? Anyone know for sure?

 

The Inserts were "Hardened" IN THE COURTROOM, Dude...But when they 1st Fell Out of Margarito's HandWraps, IN THE LOCKER ROOM PRIOR TO THE FIGHT, they had MOISTURE on them...

Shit, if REED's Not Mistaken, even Larry Merchant Said ON AIR that a Wet Subtance was Found in Margarito's Handwraps, just B 4 the Opening Bell Rang...



REED:kidcool:

 

Well, REED, if they were hardened or not, if they were used on Cotto or not, we will never know for sure.

I don't like cheaters of any kind and believe if your going to presume guilt on one cheater, you have to on another. Ex. Shane and Marg.

I used to be a huge Sugar Shane fan, this was back before secondsout, on espn's boxing board.

I can't be a fan of Shane's anymore, or Margs.

And that is my main point REED, it seems like your giving Shane a pass and Marg is guilty no matter what. I say they are both pieces of shit.

That's all I have to say about this. Thanks for not calling me "Mijo" REED, you know that shit irritates me.:fightme:

 

My opinion is that it's pretty obvious he used the plaster in the Cotto fight, if not in other fights as well, such as the Cintron fights and the Williams fight.

What struck me the most was the lack of stamina Margarito seemed to have in the Mosley fight compared to his previous fight. And this is consistent with his having used loaded gloves in the past and been seemingly tireless, whereas he tired severely against Mosley.

My guess is he loaded up much more against Mosley, knowing he needed to in order to compensate for the missing plaster in his gloves. This would undoubtedly affect his stamina.

We saw the same thing with Trinidad, in his fights following the Hopkins fight. He was never as active, threw fewer punches, and seemed much more mindful of running out of gas.

It's not proof. But it does point to his having used the plaster in fights previous to the Mosley fight.

 

Wow

I guess the bodyshots Mosley hurt him with repeatedly had NADA to do with Margarito slowing down.

Add in the fact Cotto head hunted and invested little in the body...wouldn't you think that had some influence in how quickly he tired?

 

from what I know or have heard NSAC confiscates all wraps and gloves after a championship fight so they coudn't be from the Cotto fight.

and from what I can speculate after hearing all sides of this is this

Capetillo uses wraps he makes in sparring. It's a practice some trainers do so the wraps can be given time to mold to a fighters hand. It eventually dries (some Mexican gauze has a wax like substance on it causing it to dry) so trainers will put an iron to it using the steam function to soften if back up. This IMO is where the wrap came from.

now the night of the fight instead of using an iron to re-moisten the wraps Capetillo probably already applied the plaster like substance to them and took them to the arena (which was about two blocks away from the fight hotel) so by the time CSAC looks at them they are still moist but do not look like anything out of the ordinary

 

I'm not saying Mosley had nothing to do with his beating Margarito. But if Margarito truly had been wearing loaded gloves leading up to his fight with Mosley and was suddenly without them, his stamina would suffer.

 

So this technique that is done with the iron is that a cheating process? Also if what you said about Capetillo is true, do you think he did it with the intent to cheat?

 

Why?

 

Improves lung capacity.

 

What makes you include this fight?

Margarito got to Williams in the later stages of the fight, but I don't think he ever had him as hurt or in the same kind of trouble Matthysse had him in during their fight - not that Matthysse had him out on his feet or anything, but he rung his bell - and his single punches didn't seem to have the same kind of impact on Williams as Matthysse's did.

Maybe Matthysse is just that much more of a puncher, with or without illegal wraps, but without something more convincing to suggest he was wrapping in this fight, I'm not inclined to believe he was.

I've heard speculation that he started after that loss, and as far as guesses go, that seems as reasonable as any, though it's all speculation without further evidence.

 

Hopkins used good angles and movement and wasn't giving Tito the clear targets to punch. Tito's always been a selective puncher, not a huge workrate, but he picks his shots well. Against DLH and Hopkins, he didn't throw much, because the targets weren't there as often.

 

That makes no sense what so ever. What do loaded gloves have to do with stamina? I mean really?

 

You won't use up as much energy on offense if you're not putting much into your punches.

If you're not putting much into your shots, but the gloves are loaded, they can still do damage regardless.

 

Loading your gloves also creates extra weight on your hands. So there's a trade-off. You lose hand speed and you have to expend extra energy to raise your arms and throw punches. However, you can save energy by not loading up on your punches.

 

So... Margarito was putting more on his punches vs. Mosley than he was vs. Cotto?

 

yeah. it makes your hands heavier but we're not talking about ten or even five pound wrist weights, for example. he probably did lose speed but i'd say the trade-off definitely worked in his favor, especially given his style of fighting.

as an extreme example, try hitting a bag just squeezing a tube of pennies in your fist. you barely have to expel any energy and your punches still move the bag. only when you try to replicate the velocity you would normally throw at does the added weight begin to tire you out. if Margarito let the extra weight do its work, like i said, i think the trade-off definitely worked in his favor.

 

I think so. I think his punches were harder against Cotto because of the plaster, but I think he was expelling more energy throwing his punches against Mosley.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it was after the Williams fight that Margarito thought it necessary to cheat in order to win. If that's the case, you really have to give Mosley credit because as out-boxed as Margarito had been early on against Williams, his body-work and punch out-put made the fight very close ultimately, with Margarito hurting Williams late in the fight and winning the majority of the second half of the fight.

I still maintain that Williams was allowed to get away with way too much holding in that fight. Everytime Margarito got close, Williams held.

And interestingly, everytime he got close to Cotto, Cotto moved.

It's why I want to see the Mosley/Margarito fight again (I deleted my copy). It was so long ago I can't recall how Mosley dealth with Margarito compared to those two guys.

 

Have you ever worn 16 ounce and 10 ounce gloves? There's a significant difference between the two when you're using them over an extended period of time and the difference is "only" 6 ounces.

 

honestly no one really knows. In CSAC's book it doesn't say if the gauze being used has to be new just the dimensions and how much they can and cannot use. Capetillo says he didn't mention this process because he knew of other trainers who do the same thing and didnt know if what they were doing was wrong.

It still doesn't explain at what point were the pads laced with plaster but I just wanted to shed some light on why there was blood on the pads prior to the wrapping.

 

So this is all based on the assumption that Margarito punched with less power because he was "letting the plaster do it's work"

That is seriously some of the most ridiculous shit I have ever read. The weight of the plaster was nothing. They were small pads not rolls of quarters.

 

Doub is the Drunken MASTER of "Keen Eye BULLSHIT"...


REED:mj:

 

:bears:Amen to that.

 

So what are you and Z suggesting? That loading your gloves with foreign substance doesn't give the fighter an advantage? Then why the hell would he have done it and possibly risked a life-long suspension, not to mention what could've been prosecuted as a felony? Because he thought it might be "neat" to try?

Z, you've obviously never hit a bag, let alone boxed anyone if you don't think added weight to your hands provides a significant advantage.

The roll of pennies is an extreme example, obviously, to make my point. But it serves its purpose of demonstrating how loading your hands with something can allow you to inflict the same amount if not more punishment while expending less energy at the same time.

Why do you think they call guys like Pavlik and Foreman heavy-handed? To varying degrees those guys look slow as hell but can hurt people with glancing blows because they're "heavy-handed."

And look how tireless Pavlik is. He doesn't need to load up. He can just let his heavy hands do the work of punishing his opponent.

 

Exactly...then you don't have to use as much energy, and there is not much extra weight slowing you down if there's plaster-like substance on it. You can throw lighter shots, arm shots, and it'll still do extra damage as opposed to legal gloves.

If you get tired hitting the heavy bag, you have a tendency to throw lighter shots (at least I do when I'm tired).

Anyway I think it's a moot point as Margarito has excellent stamina regardless.