People skim over talking about his chin in favour of his freakish speed and power. But what about his fucking chin?? This is a guy who started at flyweight. Cotto is a solid welterweight puncher and Manny walked through flush left hooks and right hands like they were nothing. His chin is iron, without a doubt.
I don't know that i'd say his chin is "iron", but it's certainly something that's overlooked as part of his overall package. The HBO commentators even brought it up tonight. He has a very solid chin for sure, but i think because he's so loose and fluid it help hims absorb a punch. It's different than a guy like Tex Cobb who seemingly had no connection between his jaw and brain stem.
I think there is a misconception in boxing that when you move up in weight, you are automatically gonna be easier to hurt. Manny started out as a skinny flyweight....then became a lean featherweight....now he's a stocky-ish welter. His weight absorbs the power a lot better.
He's got a big head and a wide face, that probably helps a bit, but when he was fighting in weight classes he never belonged in, a jab cold knock him down for 14 seconds. I think with a heart as strong as Pacquioa's , extra weight suits him much better, who knows how far he could move up before slowing down.
Considering that Pacman is definitely not a natural welterweight, I don't think its's a stretch to say he has an iron chin. We're talking about a 5'5 natural featherweight taking flush shots from a solid welterweight puncher like Cotto with NO effect. None at all. If that aint an iron chin I don't know what is. Cotto even seemed to get Mosley's attention with some flush shots he landed more than Pacman, and Mosley has a rock solid chin at 147. Hussein? :: Please. That fight was almost a decade ago. I'm talking about Pacman right here, right now. Plus, Pacquiao actually got up at 7 or 8, it wasn't his fault the ref gave him more time. That was a freak occurance though, incredibly strange. Because it really was a jab, that's not an exaggeration, it didn't even seem to have any weight behind it either, and Pacman just hit the deck immediately, clearly hurt. Very odd. It was clearly an aberration though, similar to the uppercut that Vernon landed on Mosley and almost KO'd him. Weirder than that though, because you could tell the uppercut was a hard punch. Since then he's taken much bigger punches from much bigger punches and barely been wobbled, let alone knocked down or KO'd. I think it's safe to say that at this weight, Pacman's chin is rock solid. Also, as he's moved up in weight, Pacman's head and face seems to have got bigger and bulkier, not just his body. He has a big solid head and face now, a bit like Mosley, and hard punches just seem to bounce off him.
:nono: Mayweather Sr. is already accusing Pac of using HGH. I wouldn't be surprised if Manny is doing something, since he has gained an awful lot of lean muscle weight as an adult. I hope he's just a freak of nature, or just an extremely dedicated and talented fighter.
His chin up at so high a weight was the last remaining question mark i had about him until last night, but it's clearly concrete. You could see that not only in the way he took the shots he did, but in the abandon of his attack against a such a bigger stronger guy.
Has Pacman been training on the side with Panama Lewis? He has become like a freakish weight division climbing version of Aaron Pryor. I was waiting for him to slow down and get sloppy like he did against Marquez in the later rounds, but he never did. :notallthere:
Ropadope - I don't believe that at all. Pacman just looks naturally bigger now, his body doesn't look weird at all. He looks bigger, more solid, but slightly less ripped, which is how he should look really. He just carries the extra weight REALLY well. Also, I'm sure he would have been caught if he took something like that. Hut Hut - I've said before that Pacman's chin is solid, but even I was in disbelief last night. Cotto isn't Tommy Hearns, but he is a solid puncher at 147 - and even though Pacman took some steam out of him, Cotto was still landing solid shots, and Pacman was just walking through them like they were absolutely nothing.
as silly as it sounds I've always thought 50% of chin psychological. He believes in his own invincibility so much right now getting hit doesn't discourage him & he doesn't lose energy and focus with stress over it because he KNOWS he'll turn the fight around with the next flurry.
If you guys check out the Pacquiao on Mayweather and Cotto (video) thread you'll see that Pac's face did get busted up a bit too. He even says that he did feel Cotto's power a lot but that he had to pretend during the fight that it wasn't affecting him.
agreed that was really surprising, tought he would be hurt by cotto punches. He took them like they were nothing
I agree, chin is psychological as well as physical. If George Foreman hits you, physically he's just so heavy handed, you're going down. But if you're getting hit from so many angles and getting discouraged and don't believe you can weather the storm and go down, that's psychological. Look at Clifford Etienne, he started to go down from any punch after his psychological strength disappeared.
You may be right that Pacquiao is just a natural. I guess it is possible for him to add 40% of his body weight as lean muscle in 10 years as an adult. As far as getting caught goes, I'm not sure that boxing is more willing to catch a star than tennis is.
If he was tested during training seasons, maybe he would have been caught. Not saying he uses anything, just that testing after fights is useless
True. I'd also bet that Barry Bonds didn't put on a higher percentage of lean muscle mass throughout his career than Pac has. I'd even guess that a height to weight ratio woud show that Pac has packed more muscle onto his frame than Bonds did. I don't know for sure, but I would bet the figures would be at least close. It wouldn't prove anything if I'm right about the numbers, and it may be the case that Pac is just a freak of nature--one would expect a freak of nature to be the best at what he does! But his increase in size and strenght makes me wonder if the gains were made legitimately.
