Is boxing still dead or is this a renaissance?

Super 6, Gamboa and other Cubans, Klitschkos, and the winner of Pacq vs Mayweather's next fight...plenty going on

 

Why the rise in popularity? I would say Hamed lead to more guys to go out for the ams which lead to the impressive 2008 olys and now schools...?

 

They flunctuate with the names on the card. All there biggest draws are washed up, quit, old, want to come to boxing or have intestine problems.

 

Considering the source, this is the response we should expect from you.

 

It doesn't matter, I hate MMA compared to boxing too - but the statement is incorrect. UFC's PPV numbers are not trailing off. Sorry royjonesp4p, nice try

 

What's wrong with writing protege exactly? Enlight me because english isn't my first language.

And, you don't agree with me? You think everything is fine and dandy with boxing? Fair enough. Instead of trying to show me with questions that you think my point of view is rubbish, why don't you expose yours. Tell me explicitely why you think I'm wrong. I don't feel like having 10 back and forth posts with you to understand your point of view.

As for your question, I obviously meant over cautiously. Of course there's a certain path that a fighter has to take before fighting a certain level of fighter.

 

How many HBO fighters have lost in their careers?

 

I just don't believe that the PPV based on super stars is the best model. Too many PPV fights fail to please, and few fighters can live up to the hype. As it is, few casual or hardcore fans are satisfied.

 

Can you read?

 

They had 2 good selling PPVs with UFC 100 and GSP-Penn. After that their numbers are down all the time. Their last card they had to give away 2/3 of the tickets.

Lesnar is done, thats their biggest draw. Rampage quit. Henderson is gone. Lidell is retired. Ortiz and Forrest are washed up.

That leaves, Machida, BJ Penn and GSP. Then of course they have Kimbo who is old. It's not going to get anymore popular than it is.

 

All of this is irrelevant - your statement about MMA/UFC PPV's: "their numbers are down all the time" is flat out incorrect.

immediately after UFC 100 (which did around 1.5 million buys) UFC 101 did over 1 million buys.

in the past two years they have had 4 PPV events over 1 million ppv buys (Lesnar was the headliner for 2 of them true).

And over the past 2 years - if you take out the two PPV events you mentioned (UFC 100 and GSP-Penn) UFC PPV events average approx 522,000 buys (GSP-Penn wasn't even one of the 4 events that did over 1 million, either).

if you take out the events that went over 1 million and GSP-Penn, events fluctuated between about 350k-650k buys. Its remarkably consistent.

btw this does not include Tito-Griffin yet.

again, nice try.

 

what happened to Lesnar?

why did Rampage quit?

 

as far as i know

Lesnar has an intestinal infection, very serious

Rampage quit because of conflicts that arose with him filming the A-Team movie

 

Boxing, in the ring, is a great thing. It's what happens outside of the ring that has made the sport a trainwreck.

First thing boxing needs to do is get rid of a bunch of weight classes. The math is simple. Less weight classes equals more good fights. With fighters moving up and down in weight and catch weight fights, having different weight classes every 3-7 pounds is obsolete and hurts the sport.

Next, they need to some how, some way, decide a REAL champion. 4 Major sanctioning bodies dilutes the worth of any and every belt. I don't care if it's the Ring Belt, or if HBO and Showtime both decide to stop recognizing the Alphabet belts and create their own, or something else, the sanctioning bodies and their absurd sanctioning fees need to go.

The payscale needs to be fixed as well. Far too often arguments over pay hold up or prevent fights, and that's bad for the sport. Pac-Floyd is a natural, yet many are convinced it's never gonna happen because of money. That's insane, but that's boxing. Make all fights 60\40 to the winner, 65\35 if it's by KO. Take a cue from UFC and have win bonuses, KO of the night bonuses and Fight of the Night bonuses. Make fighters less apt to just go throught the motions because they know they'll get paid the same win, lose or draw.

More good fights on free TV. TNF used to have a great mix of up and comers, B-Level champions, fading stars and cult heroes. Some weeks were great, some weren't, but it was always must watch TV. TV boxing hasn't had that in forever.

Start stacking the undercards. For far too long, boxing on PPV has been one good fight, and a bunch of fights nobody gives a shit about. You see seats that you know people paid good money for empty until moments before the main event. That's ridiculous. Go back to the days of the Don King Supercards where they'd show 5 fights, and all of them meant something.

Finally, get the most of your PPV's. Was there a big KO on the non televised undercard? Show it. Did a prospect win an undercard fight before the PPV started? Show highlights. Was there an upset? Same thing.

One of the things that people hate about boxing on TV on PPV or HBO is the flow of the event. Does anyone even watch those ridiculously long and boring video packages between fights? We want to see fights, not some story about how a fighter grew up poor on the streets of Mexico City until he met so and so who did this or that for him.

Say what you want about the UFC, but the flow of their PPV's is great. Time between fights is minimal, and that keeps the viewer from losing interest. At worst, you have to sit through a commercial for some movie or videogame. But that sure beats the often 20+ minutes between fights on a boxing PPV or HBO card.


TFK

 

I definitely agree that boxing has an area much more taxing than MMA: head trauma. If a guy gets tapped out or nailed a few dozen times with a 4-ounce glove in 3 five-minute rounds, he's gonna be left with less brain trauma than a guy who has taken at least 30-40 shots to the head for 10-12 rounds.

With regards to boxing, it likely wears a person out faster through head trauma than MMA.

 

1. agREED...REED Isn't Suggesting Going Back to the Original 8, but 9-10 Divisions MAX would B Sufficient...112, 118, 126, 135, 147, 160, 175, 200, 201+......

2. agREED...In the SHORT Time that REED has Watched MMA, he Treats UFC "World Title Fights" MORE SERIOUSLY Than Today's Typical "World Title Fights" In Boxing...For Instance, NOBODY Cared about the Title that Pacquiao & Cotto Alledgedly Fought 4...& NOBODY Cared that Pacquiao-Hatton & Mayweather-Marquez were Basically NON-Title Fights...Boxing has WILLINGLY DIMINISHED the Value of its Championships to the Degree that Elite Level Fighters R BIGGER than the Belts they May or May Not B Competing for...

3. UNrealistic, Pie in the Sky Scenario...In MMA, the UFC is "Big Brother", Basically...THE Most INFLUENTIAL Entity in the ENTIRE Sport, Bar None...The Place where ALL Fighters STRIVE to Get To Someday...In Boxing, there IS NO Such Animal that Stands ALONE @ the Top...In Boxing U've Got Arum, Golden Boy, Goosen, Frank Warren, Universum & Countless Other INDIVIDUAL (yet POWERFUL) Entities...& NONE of them R Likely to Cowtow to the Other...Boxing would Need the NATIONAL Regulation that Teddy Atlas ALWAYS Harps On to Make this Feasible...& John McCain has Been UNsuccessfully Trying to Get this Done for MORE than a Decade...

4. disagREED...For what it's Worth, this Past Season of FNF was EXCELLENT in REED's Opinion...Tavoris Cloud vs. Clinton Woods & Juan Urango vs. Randall Bailey was a Doubleheader Worthy of Showtime or HBO Exposure, yet it was Shown on FNF...Many of the New Breed Cuban Fighters were FREQUENTLY Shown on FNF or WNF...& the Spanish Channels STILL Do a Good Job of Showcasing the YOUNG Latino Talents like Abner Mares & Others...

5. TOTALLY agREED...The Pac-Cotto Undercard is the LATEST Example of this...

6. agREED...

7. YES, People Watch Them...Boxing DOESN'T have the Advantage of a T.U.F. Program, which is Basically the UFC's Farm System & INTRODUCES the MMA World to the Fighters...REED DIDN'T Know Much about the Likes of Alfredo Angulo, Victor Ortiz & Chris Arreola's PERSONAL LIVES Until the Short HBO Pre-Fight Features...Shit, they're 3-5 Minutes MAX & if U've Decided to Invest Time in Watching a Fight, it's Not THAT Big of a Deal...

8. Different Strokes for Different Folks...REED Bootlegs Boxing Tapes & DVD's Throughout Dallas & Ft. Worth & the VAST MAJORITY of Purchasers Actually WANT the Pre-Fight Shit that HBO & Showtime Dedicates to Each Fighter...Again, we're Talking a Matter 3-5 Minutes MAX, in Most Cases...



REED:hammert:

 

#2 is unrealistic. all it would do is cause fighters to get froze out of title shots for years. it has been proven that networks want to advertise fights as being for a title.

 

Something to keep in mind, is that just a few years back, 3 of 4 guys you mentioned were NOT considered to be boxings carrying stars. Instead it was guys like Jones / Mosely / DLH whose impending (although as of yet to come to reality) retirement appeared to be the demise of boxings elite with little on the horizon.

 

OR, it could Cause Fighters, Managers & Promoters to B Proactive in POSITIONING Themselves for Title Shots...# 2 is a LEGIT Gripe, Neil...Even HARDCORE Boxing Fans have a HARD time Deciphering who's A Champ, who's THE REAL Champ & All that Other Nonsense These Days...


REED:hammert:

 

Shit, Just this Time LAST Year, Manny Pac WASN'T 1 of Boxing's "Carrying" Stars...Manny was a FAN FAVORITE No Doubt, but he was Good for 300,000-400,000 PPV's @ MOST...

But N a Mere 2 Fights (Dela, Hatton), Manny Became a CROSSOVER Star, Boxing's # 1 Fighter Lb for Lb & Arguably it's TOP DRAW...If More Fighters Take the RISKS that Manny Pac has Taken, their Reward Could Very Well B MAINSTREAM STARDOM...



REED:hammert:

 

1. Dream on. While I believe that weight classes should be every 5 lbs from 105 through 140, it's not going to change.

2. Dream on. The sanctioning bodies are here to stay because they are a net benefit to the sport, because they are entrenched, and because they are needed.

3. It's too easy to get screwed over in a boxing match by the judges. Incentives are unlikely to encourage boxers and especially their management to take any type of risk like what you are suggesting.

4. We would all like this, but there is no reason to believe it will ever be the norm again.

5. Become a promoter and show us how it is done. We'd all like this and I do think it could become more prevalent, but the masses are all about mega fights. Look at any ppv and see just how few people show up and I AM including world title fights and super prospect fights on the undercard. The MONEY fans don't care about the undercards, unfortunately.

6. Don King has done this before (Quincy Taylor win). I'm not sure why they don't do this more often. I guess because sometimes they do show the undercards on regular tv like some Broadway shows.

7. Bob Arum is as much to blame for this as anyone. He makes sure that main events cannot start early to appease the MONEY fans.

8. I agree that this is an area that could be improved. A lot.

 

While REED agrees that the LITTANY of Sanctioning Bodies is UNFORTUNATELY Here to Stay, REED is DYING to Know WHY U Think they're NEEDED???....



REED:hammert:

 

The Quincy Taylor win was like 15 years ago

 

how long did it take hagler to get a title shot when there were less titles?

 

Who gives a fuck?

 

boxers who want to make money

 

haha...that's the only one I could think of.
And that one, the result was shown right before the ppv 'officially' began (on big dish) so I knew the outcome, dammit.

 

They provide more credibility to the sport than any other option. The UFC model would crumble and will crumble when mma becomes more developed. When you see someone has a big 4 belt, you automatically assume that they have accomplished something impressive. (Except for the friggin' WBA not calling their interim belt an interim belt)

Also, as Neil pointed out, as I've stated many times before, the sanctioning bodies keep fighters from getting shut out of the top of the game. That is probably the most important way to keep the sport healthy.

 

It hasn't been done in a long time.

I think that TFK's list is real good - you can say "dream on" to almost all of it... but in general there are a lot of things that could be done that make boxing better, or more how we want it to be.

 

About 6 Years???...Is that MUCH Different than Guys like Dirrell & Ward, who R Basically Getting Title Shots @ the TAIL END of their 5th Year as Pros???...



REED:dunno: