Top tier fighters who don't give a fuck about defense

Yes, but at least Chavez didn't dryhump them the way Duran did:kidcool:

 

His defense didn't look good against any good opponent that I can recall. He got hit clean plenty. He was relatively unmarked, but I guess that's testament to the genetic structure of his face.

Oscar used to be pretty unmarked too, even if he got hit clean plenty of times.

 

As UGTBK said, just because boxrec doesn't have the record of some obscure rural Mexican journeyman doesn't mean he was actually 0-0. And I disagree totally that its pointless. The value of fighters staying busy is greatly underestimated in my book. Its one of the main reasons we don't see fighters as fluid, relaxed and honed as guys used to be, IMHO.

 

Duran didn't dry hump anyone. He would shove people around the ring, but he wouldn't dry hump them. Even Davey Moore, there was a lot of pushing and bullying around, but no dry humping.

 

Then we recall differently....

 

A keep busy fight? I agree, it's a good thing. I think fighters should be more active, without a doubt. But against novice, shitty opponents? Guys that you'll KO in 1 round without even trying?

THAT is pointless. Decent sparring would be better than that.

 

That's the Point REED is Also Trying to Make Also...Chavez's Defense was LESS than "Good" Against Better Opposition...N Fact, it was AVERAGE AT BEST Against Good Opposition...Maybe Even Slightly LESS than Average...

Exhibiting "Good" Defense Against CANS is Meaningless when Guys have NO Problems Nailing U Flush as U Move Up...Azabache Martinez, Mayweather, Taylor & Others had Very LITTLE Trouble Nailing Chavez FLUSH...




REED:kidcool:

 

It's been QUITE a While, but REED Recalls Mayweather Landing Quite a Bit in the 1st Round of their 1st Fight....



REED:kidcool:

 

True.

Just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I just took a break from work and watched Chavez against Mayweather and Rosario. His defense looked nothing special at all against either, neither of them had much trouble hitting Chavez clean.

And it goes without saying that neither Taylor or Whitaker had any trouble at all hitting Chavez.

 

Just watched it there. Mayweather landed one very solid right in the first. Everything else in terms of power punches was either caught, rolled or slipped & Chavez took the round handily. In the 2nd Chavez got wild, over extended with a combo early in the round and got caught with 2 or 3 solid shots. Then took a couple of shots as the blood rushed to his head and he chopped Roger down. The first round was an impressive defensive showing, IMO, the 2nd certainly wasn't.

Just watched the first two rounds of the Rosario fight, too. Short of a few left uppercuts Chavez either parries, pulls or slips almost everything else significant, though takes a couple of jabs and body shots. As I've said, in the context of his aggressive style, Chavez had an effective defence.

 

If somebody wants to disagree with the last statement - kindly name 5 come forward fighters more adept at picking of and deflecting incoming.

Duran
Prime Tyson arguably
Napoles perhaps, when he was going forward

Catching shots while going forward like that is a tremendous skill, it shouldn't be dismissed because the guys that do it sometimes get hit more than the Andre Dirrel's of the world. Their defensive skill has to be put in the context of the rest of their style.

 

Chavez got hit clean far more often against Rosario than you're suggesting.

I watched the first few rounds too. Both in close and mid range, Chavez got clipped plenty.

Like I said, Barrera and Hagler are just two examples of fighters that could come forward attacking and get hit less than Chavez.

Against good opponents, Chavez's defense looked average.

Like REED said, he was no Plasterito in hittability terms, but his defense wasn't exceptional in the slightest.

 

OK, add Barrera and Hagler to your list. And Winky too, despite how basic his offense/defense was, he would come forward against top opponents and get hit less than Chavez did.

 

Chavez had a good chin, but he didn't slip punches often even in his prime. Past 1994, his defense was like a rickety screen door.

 

Yep. I recall Mayweather landing plenty before Chavez lowered the boom.

 

Rosario landed plenty against Chavez. A fighter with a lesser chin than Chavez would have been in serious trouble with some of the punches Rosario landed. At the time it happened, this was the fight that really put Chavez on the map as an "iron-chinned" fighter due to the way he took the best Rosario had to offer.

 

Yep, I just watched it earlier, Rosario landed plenty of clean shots. Chavez didn't look hard to hit in the slightest.

 

:: Uuuuuh, O.K...

There was 1 ANNOUNCED Right Hand that the Commentators Caught & ANOTHER that Landed...There was Also MORE than a Handful of LANDED Jabs (Getting HIT w/Jabs ISN'T an Indicator of "Good" Defense, Sorry) & Even a Bodyshot for Good Measure...Besides Right Crosses & Overhand Rights, Mayweather Really DIDN'T Throw Any "Power" Shots @ All....

Chavez DIDN'T Take a Beating in that 1st Round or Anything, but it's NOT like Mayweather COULDN'T Find him Either...& if, If, IF Chavez Won that Round, it Definitely WASN'T "Handily"...Chavez PROBABLY Won that Round but Not NEARLY in the Fashion U're Describing...We'll have to Agree to DISagree, Apparently...

For Anybody that Wants to Judge Round 1 of Chavez-Mayweather I for Themselves, here it Is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbL-jL48e6A



REED:kidcool:

 

Dude, Im not saying he only got hit with one shot. Of course he got hit with jabs and even a couple of right hands which he rolled and took the sting out of. Im just saying he was NAILED once. And in the process nailed Mayweather a good few times. Ditto to Broadway - I was only talking about the first 2 rounds, where hard left uppercuts aside he did a good job of throwing sand on & muffling most of Rosarios artillery.

Look bottom line, my opinion is this : Chavez was an aggressive fighter who got hit at times but was also skilled enough to intercept most of the incoming despite that aggression. It's easy to look like a great defensive fighter on the back foot, and in the process achieve fuck all offensively. It's harder when you're going all out offensively and that should be factored in when evaluating his defensive skills. He was listed here as a 'fighter who doesn't give a fuck about defense' and thats down right retarded.

 

I thought Chavez was a pretty good defensive fighter. Slipped and rolled with shots effectively.

People mentioned his fight with Taylor an example of his defensive weaknesses, but I don't agree. He was actually avoiding a lot of shots in those flurries, but of course Jim Lampley would get an erection and talk about how Taylor was hurting Chavez. It was more a testament of Taylor's speed and amazing workrate that he was outlanding Chavez, more so than Chavez's defensive weakness.

 

Well, we can Certainly AGREE There...Chavez CLEARLY "Gave a Fuck" about Defense...It Just WASN'T 1 of his Strong Suits @ the World Class Level....



REED:kidcool:

 

Chavez cared about defense. He simply developed a very relaxed defensive posture that no doubt helped him absorb punishment when it was required to be taken.

To suggest he had bad defense is absurd. He caught ALOT of stuff on shoulder, glove or simply rolled with it. It's not the "make him miss, make him pay" defense, but no everyone has to bob and weave to be effecient defensively. There are many ways to get the job done and Chavez' was easily one of the most effective of his era.

 

I agree, it's absurd to list Chavez as an example of someone who doesn't give a fuck about defense (forgive him, he's an MMA boy ;)) - but it's almost as absurd to list him as having "excellent" defense. There are plenty of fighters who could be aggressive and get hit less than Chavez at world level.

 

He Caught ALOT of Stuff ON HIS FACE & SIDES of his HEAD Too...



REED:kidcool:

 

::
It's boxing, brother. If you're not getting hit, you aren't doing it right.

 

I think I took this thread the wrong way. I wasn't really thinking of Chavez not "giving a fuck" about defense, rather more on the lines of Chavez was definitely a fighter willing to use his chin to take two to give you one. Like REED said, I wouldn't say he didn't give a fuck about defense, but for a world class fighter, his defense wouldn't be called world class.

Holyfield had great defense as a Cruiser. As he moved to HW he loved the inside wars. He slipped punches at times but would take entire rounds off. Go watch the Bowe/Holyfield wars it was like Bowe couldn't miss.

I should have specified about Foreman. He's actually a bad choice on my part, due to in his prime, you are right his parying with his gloves was great. In his comeback though, different story. All he did was cross his arms in front of his head/chest and hope to absorb punches. He knew most of these heavies couldn't knock him out so he wasn't worried about getting hit.

MWS - thanks for getting my back bro ::

 

One of Chavez's best defensive displays came against Rosario.

Even against Taylor Chavez managed to block and roll with a lot of shots that Lampley and Merchant seemed to think landed cleanly.

Chavez was kind of sloppy against LaPorte and Lockridge.

 

Why don't we just all agree that we're all right in our own ways and hug it out. I cant see that expressing the rainbows inside of us can make us wrong!

 

LOL at Huthut.

You know, it's threads like this that make me think Arturo Gatti might have lived longer if he had focused on defense more often.


What? Too soon?

 

His punchstats against Rosario were actually quite close to that

Chavez didnt get hit at a high percentage against anybody during his prime

I never said he was as good as Duran defensively either

I said he was good at countering while applying pressure, which of course was soemthing Duran was also good at