Tough to say. Mancini was a helluva lot better than Baby Cow Diaz, and we saw him give Marquez hell for 7 rounds. Mancini would certainly push Marquez to the limit. I'm inclined to think that down the stretch JM's clean countering would take its toll on Ray, but I have my doubts on him stopping Mancini, esp not in a 12 rounder.
I don't think JMM has the size or firepower to keep Mancini honest at 135. Diaz roughed him up pretty badly at times and I just can't see him winning that kind of war against Mancini. If Marquez could weather the storm he might have a chance to chop Mancini up like Bramble did in their first fight but don't think he'd have the chance.
In a trilogy, I think Marquez would take one fight on a close, somewhat scrappy, decision through twelve rounds, but lose two from three. Mancini was just a bigger, better, meaner Diaz. No shame for Marquez, who's not a natural 135lber, but I think, if it's over twelve, he'd be competitive in most likely losing to Mancini, & would have a one-in-three shot for success. He'd definitely have his moments on the counter. Mancini could be remarkably open at times, even allowing for his style. Have to think a fighter of Marquez's class would have success at times with that.
You'll get a chance for further analysis soon, with Katsidis shaping up to him at the weight in March.
After seeing Katsidis get knocked silly by an ancient Casamayor and getting out hustled by Diaz I'm having a hard time seeing how he beats JMM.
Until fairly recently, I would've agreed with you Fortunato. Maybe I still do. I think I could say this much --- if ever Katsidis could climb into the ring with Marquez & have a hope of winning, now's it. It's obvious they're not in the same class, but the timing is as good as it's going to get for the exciting puncher, & I think he has a chance to upset the applecart. Marquez, though one of the better aged fighters of his generation, has to be feeling the pinch of Father Time at some point, & perhaps with two dramatic shifts in weight in as many fights, as well as coming back from the most demoralising & comprehensive defeat of his long career, having to defend a championship straight-up no less, could collectively conspire to enhance Katsidis' chances beyond the norm. I still can't go past Marquez as a sizeable favourite, but it was once a completely unwinnable match for Katsidis, which I think it no longer is. He probably learned duly from the loss to Casamayor, who, incidentally, I think Katsidis would've bested, had there been an immediate rematch. It should still be Marquez's fight, but watching those feather-fists of Diaz rock his world again last night, I am at least a little on edge for this one. Let's hope the boy pulls through
Mancini was tough, and was hanging in there whilst very green against an all-time legend in Arguello, it is worth noting that when he was as inexperienced, JMM lost to guys like Freddy Norwood at lower weights. If JMM thinks Norwood was a grafting, spoiling hardball SOB....he would be shocked by Mancinis propensity for absorbing punishment and keeping a helluva pace over 12 rounds....Mancini by wide decision.
One fight doesn't make a career, in fairness. Marquez has gone on to achieve more than Mancini ever did, for instance. Also, the battle isn't when both are green, but when one is prime (Mancini) & the other is prime in the context of skill-set, but out of his natural weightclass (Marquez). I, too, would favour Mancini, but he was just so open, & who better to take advantage of that than Marquez? Not too many, at least, among the current crop between 130-140lbs. Marquez could win one from three or four, & run him close on another occasion --- perhaps getting the worst of it in a clear defeat in one of the fights.
LOL. Still say that fight was a robbery! Marquez overcame his setbacks, though. Mancini never really did. Could've been an exciting fight, this one. A bit like a Marquez-Castillo fight at the same weight, in fact.
Thats because Mancini's setbacks were called Alexis and the Death of Duk Koo-Kim Two very hard to overcome set-backs for Ray.
Nevertheless, Marquez has more than conquered his share of adversity. & how. You would give Marquez effectively no chance here? I can't agree with that. Mancini was very good, Marquez, genuinely great. The size disparity tips the fight back in Mancini's favour, but not by that much, IMO.
I never said otherwise. I said Hut-Hut would get a chance to further analyse Marquez, the Lightweight, in his next fight --- it being at the weight.
Boom Boom Mancini was active in the 80s era and Juan manuel Marquez was a star in the 2000s. Ergo... no way can Marquez win a Mythical Matchup against this guy....
Yes. I agree. Digital pictures and Dolby Surround makes for weaker fighters. The grainier the image......the better the fighter. This is true...Ring Magazine proved it. Joe Louis destroys Vitaly every day of the week. DVD guys destroy Blueray guys. These are FACTS.
Absolutely. There isn't ONE "colour TV" (color to the Americans) fighter that's even in Bert Sugar's top 10 P4P al time list. These old timer cunts..
You know, all kidding aside, I've never really brought this point up, but, I have long-held a suspicion people subconsciously downgrade fighters of the distant past partly on the basis of teleivision clarity. High-definition, Dolby-surround fighters might get the benefit of the doubt, especially from younger viewers, when they compare with black-&-white, poor or no sound fighters. I know it's a slightly odd concept, & difficult to base with hard evidence...I just can't shake the feeling it might factor into some peoples' judgements, benefitting the assessment of contemporary boxers, to whatever degree.
Well leaving out Ray Leonard and Duran is criminal....but the sheer depth of talent & activity rates makes it inevitable that the greater glut of talent will be from previous generations. When the dust settles there's a good chance only Pac will have cracked the top 20 of fighters who've come along in the last 20 years and the talent pool continues to dry up decade by decade, IMO.
This is the truth that no one here seems able to face Boxing has been in decline over the past two decades
Sadly i have to agree. However i don't look at it in terms of the sport being on it's last legs. Boxing will be around for as long as anyone on this board lives. It's not just a matter of guys being fatter and lazier but many athletes early on will choose other sports. In order to make big money in boxing you have to make it near the elite level. In virtually all other major sports guys can become millionaires over the course of their careers by riding the pine. You also don't have to take punches to the head to do it.
I'd say that boxing has been on the decline in terms of matchups being put together. It's too much about money and there's too much politics now. but in terms of fighters....it's getting better and better. People will not want to agree but Mayweather, Jones, Hopkins, Pacquaio, Calzaghe...just to name five...are better (as a group of 5) than any five fighters in the 80s, head to head.
In the 80's, maybe. I don't agree, but maybe. That doesn't tell the whole story, though. Participation continues to drop, levels, by & large, follow suit --- & it's really as simple as that.
Truth is I can go through old issues of Ring magazine from the 70s and 80s and I probably know more of the fighters in the top tens than I do from issues in the 00s. And that only reflects the depth of talent at elite level. It's no coincidence that guys like Mosley and Hopkins have been able to keep chugging along until their 40s. It's not just because they've kept themselves in good nick - theres an absolute paucity of guys coming through to knock them off. I don't wanna sound down on boxing, it's still the king of sports, IMO. A night like Mayweather-Pac will put any other sporting event in the shade. But to say that the top guys of the 00s are better than previous generations is just plain silly.
I'm not saying Marquez couldnt win, but it damn sure wouldnt be an easy fight for him. Mancini had everything Juan Diaz had, only w/more power, physcially stronger, better stamina, better chin, and more heart.
