How hard can Floyd punch?

Probably? He's undoubtedly physically stronger than Pacquaio. Pacquiao hits harder...but Floyd would manhandle him in physical strength.

Floyd was pushing Corrales all over the place, Castillo too. Hatton as already mentioned..Oscar to a certain degree, Floyd is strong.

Floyd is grossly underestimated because he's a master boxer that has the tools and skills to make an easy fight without him breaking a sweat..but trust me...he's shown glimpses of reserves that makes me think he's quite a "scary" talent.

 

I'm convinced you just like reading your words in print and pay little attention to what you're saying. In this thread you've managed to disagree with guys nearly as pro-Mayweather as you are. Hell, I'm a Floyd hater and I've been more than generous about the guy.

At this point, you're simply spouting things simply to get reactions.

In the above post you're defending your point by restating what I said on Page One of this thread.


Originally Posted by Muzse
At 130 and even 135 to a degree I'd say Floyd was P4P one of the hardest punchers in the game. he was underrated in my opinion. At 147 I don't think he's a hard puncher, but a very sharp puncher. Kinda like James Toney.

Toney could hurt guys simply because he'd hit when and where it wasn't expected...how else could he have hurt and stopped Holyfield?

The same holds true with Floyd.

 

I'm starting to think that Sly is actually Leonard Ellerbe.

 

Floyd was never a hard puncher. He was a good, effective puncher @ 130, but P4P power? LOL.

 

Exactly. Sly is making him out to have prime RJ type of pop.

 

Since Duran COULDN'T Trap Leonard into Corners in their 2nd Fight, What Makes U Think he Could Do that to Floyd???....When Leonard WANTED to Stay AWAY from Duran, he Did So EASILY...



REED:hammert:

 

That's your BIAS Talking, Mex...There's NOfuckingWAY U Can PRAISE Duran for a "Career Best Performance" vs. Leonard, THEN Tell REED he "Wasn't Even Close" to his Best in the IMMEDIATE RE...Fuuuuuurthermore, this was a "Green" Ray Leonard we're Talking about, if U Want to Claim Duran WASN'T Himself in the RE...CAN'T Have it Both Way...

In the 2nd Bout, when Leonard Used ANGLES & Lateral Movement, there was NATHAN Duran Could Do about it...& the Thing is, WHO had Duran Fought PREVIOUSLY, that Presented the SAME Puzzle that Leonard Did???....

NOBODY...



REED:nono:

 

Vernon was a BETTER 147 lb Puncher than Floyd will EVER B...There's NOfuckingWAY Floyd will Hurt Sugar Shane as BADLY as Vernon Did...Fuuuuurthermore, Vernon Dished Out CONSIDERABLY MORE Hurt Upon Baldomir than Floyd Did...

N Terms of PUNCHING Power...Vernon Forrest > Floyd Mayweather...



REED:hammert:

 

Floyd WASN'T Able to Use his Left Hand/Arm like he WANTED to in the 1st Fight, Muzse...Was Castillo Able to Cut Off the Ring in the IMMEDIATE RE???...



REED:dunno:

 

As Muzse pointed out earlier... Ray had a nice lil height and reach edge over Duran, which does play a factor. Not to mention Leonard had the firepower to deter Duran from coming in. And lastly.... I'd argue that a 25 yr old, prime Leonard had quicker footwork than the 31 yr old welter Floyd.

 

But Again, in their 1st Fight, THE LAST Thing on Leonard's Mind was EVADING Duran's Aggression...Leonard BOLDLY (& UNsuccessfully) Attempted to STAND & TRADE w/Duran....

In the 1st Fight w/Duran, Leonard NEVER Tried to Utilize his Height, Reach OR Footwork...It's RARE that U See 2 VASTLY DIFFERENT Bouts (Comprised of the SAME EXACT Fighters) than Leonard-Duran I & II...& REED AIN'T Even Talking about the "No Mas" Portion....


REED:hammert:

 

Lets put Duran-Leonard aside for a moment and focus some on FLOYD'S fights. Floyd isnt exactly the best fighter ever in handling pressure fighters. Castillo gave him trouble with pressure, and Floyd was only able to use his footwork on Hatton after hurting, and slowing Ricky down. Not only was Duran a million times more talented than Hatton, he was also a million times SMARTER than Hatton as well, and I could actually see him setting traps for Floyd. And as I pointed out earlier, the way Duran threw his right hand, its the perfect weapon for the shoulder roll.

If any fighter is outboxing Duran, I could see a prime Whitaker pulling it off. But not Floyd, IMO.

 

1 Thing U're UNDERestimating is Ricky Hatton's OWN Footwork...Was Duran's Footwork SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than Hatton's???...Despite his Aggressive, Come Forward Style, Ricky Hatton was ALOT MORE ATHLETIC than his Manner of Fighting would Lead U to Believe...

Hatton's MOBILITY & Ability to CUT OFF the Ring was as Good as ANY Fighters, INCLUDING Duran...MORESO, R U Telling REED that Sugar Ray Leonard's Footwork was BETTER than Floyd's???....Equal, Probably, but NOT Superior:nono:...

When Leonard Put his MIND TO it, there was NATHAN Duran Could Do w/his Mobility...N NO Way is REED Suggesting that Floyd is on Ray Leonard's Level, but in Terms of MOBILITY, they're @ WORST Equals...



REED:hammert:

 

Duran was MORE athletic than Hatton brah! Duran's feet were every bit as quick as Hatton's, his hands were quicker than Hatton's. and he was just alot better coordinated, with better reflexes, and moved his head and upperbody much better than ole Ricky.

And yes.... I'm saying that the 24-25 yr old Leonard was more mobile than the current Floyd.

 

We'll have to Agree to DISagree, Homey....

YES, Duran was MORE Athletic than Hatton but Based PURELY on FOOTWORK, REED Can't Say that Duran was APPRECIABLY BETTER...Ricky Hatton has ALWAYS had EXCEPTIONAL Footwork, ESPECIALLY for an Aggressive Fighter...

Fuuuuurthermore, why R U Comparing TODAYS Version of Floyd to a 24-25 Year Old Leonard???...Floyd's Been a Welter for SEVERAL Years Now...Floyd Actually RELIES on his Footwork MORESO than Leonard Ever Did....



REED:mj:

 

It's become clear to me reading through this thread that some here may not be familiar with Duran.

There is quite a lot of footage on Youtube.
Here's one such clip:

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I would also recommend looking up some Sugar Ray Leonard fights...

 

Leonard also said he never fully recovered after getting buzzed very early in the first fight. Said his head never fully cleared. Also, a misconception about the rematch is that Leonard was dominanting Duran. Despite the different tactics it was still pretty much an even fight.

Comparing Castillo- May I & II is a little different. I didn't have an issue with Floyd pushing off Castillo but for some reason Floyd was unable to use his legs to stay away like in the rematch.

I had Floyd winning the first four or five rounds in the rematch. He landed more shots but was so non-combative he looked more like Derrick Gainer than anything else. Later , around round 10 or 11 he finally sat down and buzzed Castillo...but that was after damn near refusing to engage early.

Yes, a wise tactical move but no signs of courage there.

 

I disagree Leonard was green. I think Leonard was at his peak then. He didn't change much, just like Floyd didn't. Floyd has got a bit craftier, and so did Leonard, but they were pretty complete fighters early in their careers.

Floyd was at his peak at 130/135, when he was at his speedy best, same for Leonard early at 147.

And come on REED, they were both different in the rematch, are you seriously telling me you couldn't see any difference in Duran? Compared to the first fight, Duran looked listless and unmotivated.

That's not an excuse, it's common knowledge Duran partied a lot, ballooned up between those fights, and didn't train as much. That's basically the start of when Duran started taking his career less seriously. Post Leonard, half the time he would just show up and go through the motions, which Led to him losing to a lot of people he shouldn't have done. Then every now and then, he would turn up like the hungry lightweight Duran, and beat some arse, like Davey Moore etc.

 

Prime Hatton had underrated athleticism and footwork, but Duran was still far more athletic and much faster and more accurate.

Even though Hatton's raw footspeed is nothing to sneer at, Hatton isn't an intelligent fighter. Duran would think about what he was doing, and was intelligent and crafty at cutting the ring off and trapping opponent's, it was one of his best attributes actually, to be able to catch opponents, pin them down, get them to be exactly where he wanted them etc.

Hatton isn't in the same league as Duran in any way, and not only that, Hatton is a crap welterweight. He looked out of his depth against Collazo.

Duran beat Palomino, won almost every round, then beat a prime Leonard, and in Hatton's only welterweight fight before Floyd he arguably lost to Collazo.

Come on REED, I don't really think Hatton is a good benchmark of how Duran would have done against Floyd ::

That would be like using Ledwaba as an example of how Floyd would do against Pacquiao ::

 

A big misconception. Because Duran quit, people seem to sort of imagine a scenario that didn't exist, where Duran was getting whitewashed. I think Leonard was slightly ahead, but it was a very close fight.

Which makes it weirder that Duran just suddenly stormed off. Maybe there is some truth to the notion that he needed a shit ::

 

Nonsense! Prime RJJ was a one-punch KO type of fighter. I've NEVER EVER said that Floyd has that kind a power..

 

:atu:

REED you're crazy.

 

Double L,

I like you as a poster...but when it comes to actualy fights you are more often wrong than right. This means that you really don't know the sport well. You may have historical knowledge...but you don't know how to apply that knowledge to actual fights.

Same with Xplosive.

He has more historical knowledge of teh fight game that me FOR SURE. he's seen more fights than me etc. But from what I have seen I can apply my knowledge better than him and teh evidence of this is that I pick far more fight correctly than he does.

The true evidence that someone knows the game....is their prediction accuracy %age. That's the only way to tell. No one would get everything right. But we'll look at the trends of the outcomes of actual fights based upon what they said before and this shows who really knows what they are talking about.

 

I think the difference in footwork between Hatton and Duran is most apparent when they step into a pool.

Hatton sinks.

 

:: It really does make sense.

As a whole I really do feel like the Duran-Leonard match up is in danger of becoming dangerously distorted by Duran detractors (/fans of slick black-American back foot fighters). The notion of the first just being tactical mistake by the superior Leonard which was rectified in the rematch is a very misleading characterization of what happened, IMO. Firstly, that Leonard just 'chose to brawl' in the first fight is an over simplification. There were several passages in that fight where Leonard tried to fight at range, but Duran was razor, razor sharp that night. Also, as Muze pointed out, the effect of that Duran right in the 2nd played its part. And secondly, as you say the idea that Leonard dominated the rematch is simply not true either. T'was close to an even fight, against a Duran who by Leonard's own admission was far from at his best.

Match both of them at their absolute best and Duran wins 7 out of 10. Against fragile Floyd make that 19/20.

 

Floyd had an arm issue, not an issue with his feet.

You just said it.



:atu:


Plus, from what I recall he used his left forearm mostly to push Castillo off.

 

Not to take sides with mex but what I guess he's refering to is Leonard's request to have the rematch so quickly...I believe it came about fairly quickly.

Duran gained 30+ pounds between the two fights which Leonard was well aware of. Correct me if I'm wrong but they fought in a bigger ring the second time around.

Either way..."like I said before"...with those factors in place it was STILL a relatively even fight when Duran quit. Not a blowout.

 

that's absolute bull-shit. you know as well as i do that i pick with my heart. while that may result in my getting a lot of picks wrong, it certainly is no reflection on my knowledge of the game. when i don't give a shit who wins, i'm far more likely to pick the right guy to win.

 

Hey Hut, as you may have seen, I said as much in this thread. It's a complete over simplification.

There were some rounds where Leonard DID try to box, and did try to take control centre ring, but Duran was on fire that night, and when he tried to jab and move, he would quickly find himself against the ropes taking hard bodyshots, or getting smacked with a counter right hand etc.

Leonard might have been more aggressive than usual, but it was in large part to Duran controlling the pace and style of the fight.