The greatest at his greatest?

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Also gorilla productions tribute to Mike tyson is just absolutely epic.

 

Not only was Ali in his peak in this fight but Williams' style was perfect for Ali to look good: slow guy coming forwards. These things combined made this the most impressive boxing display ever at heavyweight

 

Probably the most impressive display by pre exile Ali. Williams was a feared puncher and strong guy who could have been champion if not or Liston and then Ali. But Ali never let him get started.

 

Give Me A Break

Let's not forget the fact that Ali was fighting an over the hill heavyweight in Cleveland who still had a Texas State Trooper's .357 slug lodged in him and was fighting with one kidney.

The other kidney was removed in emergency surgery as the gunshot destroyed it.

Wow..what an accomplishment by Ali, beating up on a hollow, mortally wounded shell of a heavyweight who should have gotten his shot at the title at least 8 or 9 years earlier, but Cus D'Amato and Floyd Patterson were deathly afraid of what he would have done to Patterson, which was Cleveland would have taken Floyd out just as quick or quicker than Sonny did.

BTW: Ali may have called himself "The Greatest" but he was not.

That title belongs to the Great "Brown Bomber" Joe Louis.

Karl

 

At 2:32 of that video Ali throws a right hand that makes me believe The Phantom Punch was legit (Liston quit on canvas but the KD was real)

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

He tagged Williams a few times with that same quick straight right hand that felled Liston, which doesn't look hard but was so quick and sharp.

 

I disagree. Williams had the punch, but not Liston's ability to cut off the ring nor Liston's chin. It was not like every hard puncher had knocked Patterson out. I think either could win it

 

Personally, I think Williams was a harder natural puncher than Liston.

I won't argue who would have taken Floyd out quicker, but I have no doubt Williams would have crushed Patterson.

Most people really don't realize what a puncher Cleveland Williams really was. He was huge with long arms and great leverage.

Again, it's pointless to argue about speed of knock out but Williams easily had the tools in his prime to walk through Patterson. He was just too strong.

 

I loved Floyd, but he and Cus were both afraid of big punchers.

Cleveland was a bear of a man, I met him in 1979 at a pro wrestling show in Houston when he was Rocky Johnson's (The Rock, Dwayne Johnson's father) boxing trainer in a match with the late Bruiser Brody.

Williams looked like he could still fight as his muscles were still huge, but he had trouble getting around due to his side.

No doubt in my mind that he would have taken Floyd out in one, and I started boxing after I read Floyd's autobiography "Victory Over Myself."

Floyd Patterson was one of the greatest fighters of all time, but he would have been way overmatched in this one, and he knew it as he was a very intelligent man.

 

It's not Floyd's fault he was a tiny HW. He found the same fate against the bigger, evolved HW's of the 60's that most 185-195 pound heavyweights would have run into.

Liston, Williams Ali, etc. were just a new bread of bigger fighters that had much of the same speed and reflexes of the smaller fighters of the 40s and 50's with obviously bigger punching power.

Floyd and Marciano were two great cruiserweights.

 

I agree with everything you said.

Ali was also very fond of Cleveland, and talked no smack about him prior to the fight except for the obligatory "I'm gonna declaw the Big Cat!" for the press before the fight, much as he talked no smack about another fighter he liked and respected whom Cus and Floyd avoided, Zora Folley.

Ali knocked out Cleve early as he did not want the man to take sustained punishment which could have permanently damaged him.

Karl

 

moves like Eddie Chambers. ool

 

Karl is right. Williams was finished.

 

Ali was one sexy motherfucker!:bears:

 

No one was beating Ali that night.

 

I take it that you mean no contender at that time, right Staff?

I agree with you there.

 

No I mean...Joe Louis wasn't beating him, Marciano wasn't, Tyson wasn't, Lewis wasn't, Frazier wasn't, Holmes wasn't....No one was beating him.

 

LOL!::

 

Yeah imagine saying that the guy most people regard as the best heavyweight ever, in what most people regard is his best ever performance at the peak of his career would have beaten the other fighters he thinks weren't as good. LOL....Sly says the zaniest things.

 

The robotically, stiff Louis was great, but Ali was greater.

Louis had problems with movers, i.e. Conn.

Ali had trouble with punchers, I mean boxers, I mean brawlers, I mean.......

In other words, Ali fought against some of the baddest motherfuckers the heavyweight division had ever seen. He beat most, got some gifts like most greats, but did his thing.

It's not Louis' fault he did not have great competiton, and he did what he was supposed to do against them. But, as an opinion, I believe Ali was better.

 

I think Holmes at his best could have challenged Ali that night. Joe Louis also could have given him all he wanted as well.

And I will get crucified for this one, but Lennox Lewis gives him hell as well.

 

Why would you get crucified...IMO Lennox Lewis has the best chance of all, of beating Ali that night.

Louis would have had no chance. Louis was too slow of foot...

 

I can see it

 

Stylewise i think either of the Klitschko brothers could give Ali problems as well. Not to say i would favor them, but it's no walk in the park for him.

 

Yep, Vitali moreso but agreed

 

Nailed it. Louis was also a naturally smaller man. A bigger man with faster footwork is not what you want the Brown Bomber matched with if you're Louis' manager. I'm hardpressed to say which one had better handspeed, but with a gun to my head, I'd say Ali.

 

::::::::::

 

Hanspeed is close. But Louis, as you said was the smaller man by 15-20 pounds or so, shorter, slower feet.

Braddock dropped Louis..I think Ali could have as well. Billy Conn ran circles around Louis...Ali was a supperior mover to Conn..PLUS had the reach, handspeed advantage, better chin blah blah blah.

Dare I say it..Ali-Louis would have turned out to be a stylistic mismatch....Hopkins-Tito style.....

 

:shit: