Another fight that's tough to pick IMO. Louis was dropped frequently in his career and so it's conceivable that Holmes would have dropped him too. But only Marciano was able to finish him..and that was when Louis was 120 years old. Holmes on the other had was dropped hard by Snipes and Shavers (and stopped by Tyson when he was 37) and so Louis dropping him is also likely. Both men had great jabs. Louis was better offensively, Holmes was the smarter boxer. Both good stamina and heart. Man it's an intriguing one fo sho. Both men get bounced off the canvas: on the inside it's Louis' fight and on the outside, edge to Holmes. It goes the distance and is a split decision. Holmes gets the decision.
Actually Schmelling stopped him, too. I'd have to think about this one. I'd lean towards Holmes movement carrying the day, but Louis was so offensively devastating and astute in creating openings, it wouldn't be one I wagered much on. If he landed the kind of right that Shavers did, then when Holmes got up, he'd in world of trouble. Holmes UD15, 9-6, provisionally.
You probably need a good --- maybe a great --- tactician to beat Holmes. I've always thought this way. He's a boxer with relatively few errors in his game, & a very disciplined approach when he respects his foe. Louis was such a man, & even better was the one in his corner --- Chappie. They would have put Holmes' dislike for someone who could jab with him & his vulnerability to the right hand together, & seen what they came up with. Holmes was bigger & stronger than Conn, but less correct a boxer, & slower as well. In spite of his greater reach, he'd be a little easier to find than Conn, whose patience & rhythm were not disrupted by someone who could jab with him --- & all things considered, I have Louis' jab marked down as the best in the division's history, bar none. Louis probably would never have fully gotten over the top of Holmes' movement & smarts. Holmes, likewise, wouldn't adjust fully, IMO, to Louis' handspeed & pin-point precision. My guess is Louis gets closer to getting his head around Holmes' assets than vice-versa, though. It just wouldn't ever be an easy night for either man, on a good few levels. See, it's like fishing. The jab is Louis' line, the right hand, & combinations off the back of it, his bait & tackle. A hunter, stalking his prey. He's obviously not out for small fry in this match-up, though. This is big game, if ever there was one, & a better man than anyone Louis beat. The question is whether he comes home with the catch of the day. I tentatively vote yes. Holmes gets hauled into the boat after about nine or ten rounds. Here's my card, as I saw it playing out... 1: 10-9 Holmes 2: 10-9 Louis 3: 10-8 Holmes 4: 10-9 Holmes 5: 10-10 Even 6: 10-9 Louis 7: 10-9 Holmes 8: 10-9 Louis 9: 10-9 Louis 10: Louis TKO Holmes Scoring At Time Of Stoppage: 4-4-1, 86-85, Holmes. Louis down once in third. Louis cut over the left eye in the fifth. Holmes wobbled badly, once each, in rounds eight & nine, as Louis' straight right hand & double left-hook began to find the mark. Holmes down twice in the tenth, & rescued, wobbly-legged but protesting, against the ropes at 2:13. I class Joe Louis as the best Heavyweight who ever lived. Larry Holmes is my number-six.
I dont think a great tactician would be needed to beat Larry. I'd favor Frazier over him any day I think Louis wins this The most important thing being overlooked is Louis's own devastating jab. When a guy could stick jabs back in Larry's face, it always gave him problems and Louis hit SO HARD I do think Holmes legs would be a serious albatross for Joe Louis in this fight and MAYBE it is enough for Larry to get the close decision... but I still think Louis's power and precision, accurate punching tells the tale and he wins a decision, dropping Holmes heavily at least once. Of course Larry would get up because he was incredibly resilient
Actually, I would also favour Frazier. I might just afford a slight head-to-head edge to Liston & Foreman, as well, so perhaps you're right. You're absolutely right about Holmes struggling with jabbers --- & it is my contention that Louis' jab was the single best all-round jab in Heavyweight history. As a collective combination of speed, accuracy & stopping power, his was better than anyone's --- Holmes' included.
agreed 100% His jab was heavy like Liston's, basically a power shot in its own right... it was sharp like Ali's, with less speed Holmes' jab was like a slower slightly heavier version of Ali's Louis's was the perfect marriage of all three jabs, the traits individually just a hair under those of Liston/Ali/Holmes but better than all three because of the COMBINATION of things
Precisely. I think it's his most overlooked punch. He could throw them all, but his jab --- man alive, what a fight-commanding weapon.
what did Billy Conn say? it feels like someone stuffed lightbulbs up your nostrils and then smashed them
Indeed, he did. "It ain't like gettin' hit with a punch...it's like someone nailed you with a crowbar!" - Jimmy Braddock Holmes would make a good fight of it --- maybe a great fight --- I do expect Louis to catch him & knock him out at some point, though.
Louis. Prime Louis was a fucking good fighter, and my second favourite heavyweight after Tyson. He did have a good jab of his own too, but his brilliant, crisp, accurate combos are what impress me the most, and his timing and focus. Louis by close but clear decision.
I'd favor Louis as well. Holmes would give Louis absolute hell but his tendency to get a little flatfooted at times and his weakness to the right hand over his sometimes too low left would be too much to overcome.
Are you sure? They were both pretty adjustable fighters, with HOF cornermen in their ears, to boot. IMO, one round would just be a warm-up at this level. They'd each have too much respect to try much of anything, I fancy.
I agree. And it's unlikely we'd see any sort of domination either way for the whole fight, let alone in the first round. Both skilled, patient fighters.
You misunderstand. I don't mean to suggest I could pick a definitive winner after one round. I'd just like to see what they would look like together in there.
Yeah. Would be interesting. The Blackburn-Futch battle would be, to me at least, even more intriguing than the fight itself.
Holmes beats this guy every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Joe Louis was floored by Galento, floored twice, and heavily, by Buddy Baer, floored by Braddock, floored twice in one fight by Walcott, stopped by Marciano and was losing after 12 rounds vs 169lb Billy Conn. Oh and Schmelling beat him too. Come on. He get's hit and hurt too easily. His fight with Tommy Farr is as good an example as you need. A big, somewhat methodical jabber gave him a really close fight. Mix in Holmes toughness, his decent right hand/right upper cut and that great jab, with some of Holmes size...and I think we have us a winner.
Holmes was nearly KOd by Renaldo Snipes and Ernie Shavers and was badly hurt by Mike Weaver. Come on, he gets hit and hurt too easily. And why bring up Tommy Farr? The fight was completely one-sided... Farr acheived notoriety for lasting the distance but he did nothing except get slowly beat up Christ, you could bring up Holmes struggling at times against some pretty sorry opposition hoimself (David Bey, Bonecrusher Smith, Carl Williams, Snipes, etc) if you wanted to get that cheap about it... Louis was floored twice by Baer who was huge and who, if nothing else, could hit like hell... Have you seen the Galento fight? Yeah, he was knocked down and then got up and administered one fo the most sadistic beatdowns in history... Braddock also scored a flash knockdown and was summarily executed when louis arose... Conn/Louis is easily cancelled out by Spinks/Holmes if you want to go that route... and Walcott, he was CLEARLY near the end of the line, and Marciano? well he was clearly BEYOND the end... those two are the cheapest to bring up... it would be like bringing up Tyson
