Just how much credit should Floyd get if he beats Mosley?

"No better said...."

-George Foreman

 

I actually asked the question with that very same thought in mind, LOL. Mayweather is a very slippery customer beyond the ropes, as well as within. I couldn't be sure he didn't mean deftly, heh.

 

yep

 

Somebody should bring back threads of last year after/before Floyd's and Shane's respective fights. I remember a LOT of people saying Floyd would never ever fight Floyd. Several of them posting on this thread.

:)

 

I assume you meant people were stating Floyd would never fight Shane.

 

If we wanted to hear a long winded spiel about how Floyd is always in a no-win situation, we could just pull up a youtube video and let Floyd explain it to us himself.

 

Well you can do that too.

Doesn't make it less true.

 

So you're saying he always is in a no win situation? Fighting a prime Mosley would have been a win situation. Fighting a prime Cotto would have been a win situation. Fighting Pacquiao would be a win situation. Fighting Paul Williams at 147 would have been a win situation etc etc Fact of the matter is Floyd is always in a no win situation because he puts himself in no win situations.

 

Boxing History is often revised in order to make a point.

When was Cotto considered a serious threat to Floyd? When was he "prime"?

I submit to you that Cotto only became a legit threat to Floyd at Welterweight, in the minds of the public, after he beat Zab Judah in 11 rounds (who Floyd had already dominated). Prior to that his best career win was against Demarcus Corley in a fight in which he was nearly stopped (a guy who Floyd also dominated). By the time that Cotto was signed to fight Mosley...Floyd had already signed to fight Hatton.

If Floyd had fought Cotto when miguel had just moved up..people would have said that Cotto wasn't a true Welterweight. Don't forget that Hatton had proven as much or more in his career, at the time Floyd fought him, than Cotto had at that point (Hatton at least stopped Tszyu and Castillo).

As for Pacquiao.

Had Floyd fought Pacquiao and won easily...people would have pointed to the size difference, saying that Manny was a former flyweight yada yada yada. Maybe now after beating both Cotto and Clottey in quick succession, Floyd would get his respect...but the excuses would have come fourth had it happened sooner.

 

A lot of focus has been placed on Shane's age and inactivity. That said...

Floyd will have had one fight in 30 months when May 1 rolls around - a sparring session against a fat lightweight.

Floyd hasn't fought a full fledged welter in 3-4 years.

Best opponent he's fought at 147; strongest; craftiest, with a great trainer to boot.

At 33, Floyd is no spring chicken himself.

Plenty of questions on both sides.

 

Nice to see the other side of the coin for once

 

We've got to see how sharp Shane is...sometimes he 'turns up' sometimes he doesn't...contrast the Mayorga and Margarito fights. I think motivation is probably the key, he should be as fired up as ever for this one.

On a slightly different note, i think Floyd would get some credit if he was to come back from some real adversity (say a heavy knockdown or two) and win the fight. We haven't had to see him dig really deep before.

 

It was the style of the opponent and nothing more IMHO. A slow guy coming forwards face-first is the reason why Mosley looked good. He was still quick enough to slip shots and still powerful enough that since he landed at will, he did damage.

Mayweather is completely different style and also different level of a fighter. It won't be an interesting nor two-sided fight

 

True.

But we've seen signs in three of his fights: Burton, Castillo and Hatton that he has the potential to dig deep if need be.

I, like you, would love to see Shane test him early...and then see how Floyd reacts.

 

One thing Floyd definitely has is great focus. I've said before I regard focus & bravery as two sides of the 'heart' coin. Some guys like Gatti are brave and will take a beating all day, but they lose their belief and ability to make adjustments or commit themselves to a strategy with belief. Really great fighters like Ali & Leonard can take that punishment and also keep the belief and focus to keep applying themselves to change the fight.

Can't say anything definitive about Floyd's physical bravery because he's never really had to demonstrate it, but he has shown a very good ability to come back under serious pressure and stay 100% focused and adjust, so no way he's just gonna fold in a tough fight., IMo.

 

I agree, it's still a good fight, the best available at 147 apart from Pacquiao.

That's IF Shane has enough left. As I said before, we can't put too much stock into the Plasterito fight, he looked awful.

IMO we can't put too much stock in the Mayorga fight either, Shane has never looked good at 154, against guys at least as big and possibly stronger than him.

There is a big difference between 33 and 39 though Kenneth. Floyd hasn't had any wars, keeps himself in top top shape, he's not the type to become shot at age 33.

To be fair enough, he is also not as good as he used to be. Honestly I thought he peaked at 130, he was still very skilled back then and crafty, but he was much faster, and had good power for his weight.

And it's true, obviously Floyd has only had 1 fight in ages, a sparring session against a fat lightweight, but that's still 1 more fight than Shane has had in almost a year and a half.

The thing about age 39, is when you get into that age category for a boxer, it really is the sort of age of the proverbial fighter turning old overnight.

I just hope Shaney boy does have enough juice left (excuse the pun) and puts up a good fight. Well, I'm hoping he wins, but I at least hope he gives a good fight ;)

Make no mistake though, Floyd IS supposed to win this, it's not a career defining fight, you only have to look at the amount of people picking Floyd. Is one person on this forum picking Mosley?

 

I completely agree with this. As good as Margarito was considered to be when he fought Shane he looked terrible. He barely laid a glove on Shane and let's be honest, it has to be one of Shane's easiest fights in his whole career. Also we still don't even know how good Margarito really is without his magic wraps. I actually expect him to lose to lesser fighters now and can't wait for his next fight to see it happen.

Perhaps the real question is should Shane be given credit for beating a bum like Margarito if it turns out that is just what he is?

 

Floyd should definitely get credit if he beats Mosley. Even at 39, Mosley has slightly more in the tank than Oscar did when he fought Floyd, and Oscar came close to defeating him (well, at least on the "official" scorecards).

"However"...

If he wins, Mayweather will try to play it up like he defeated a "prime" Mosley because Mosley knocked out the guy who many thought Floyd should have fought years ago (Margarito): "Everybody said Margarito was the guy I should fight, well Shane beat his ass and I just beat Shane, so I'm the GOAT".

 

Have we met before? You seem fond of using my first name.

We'll see how Shane looks on May 1. Either way, a win would be great for either fighter.

 

I'm very fond of using your first name ::

 

And yours is?

 

I agree with you homie! I'll Holla 5000

 

I hate to bring Manny up in this conversation but people claim that DLH was shot/part-time fighter when he fought PBF at 154lbs a weight class that PBF had never competed at. But then Manny fights and dominates a clearly a weight drained DLH in a weight class that he hadn't fought at in hella and Manny gets mass credit for it. But yet PBF will get little credit for beating SSM. I don't get the double standard. Also if SSM/Manny were to fight would all of these guys be questioning if Manny should get credit for beating SSM due to inactivity and age? I highly doubt it. Anyways I think that he PBF gets hella credit for beating who I think is the champion of the division. I'll Holla 5000

 

Joe ;)

 

The manner of the victory certainly plays a role bigdawg.

Manny made Oscar look like a punching bag. Was the Oscar Manny fought a bit weight drained? Sure, but the Oscar Floyd fought wasn't exactly prime and in tip top shape was he? He was old, inactive, and the same plodding Oscar he'd been for a few years. And Floyd won a boring split decision.

The guy who gets the most credit for beating Oscar is in fact Mosley. Mosley beat a prime Oscar 9-3 having only been at weltweight for a year.

 

A "bit" weight drained is putting it mildly. Oscar had been under 147 for a month leading up to the fight. In fact, Manny weighed more than Oscar on fight night. Even Roach said he saw the IV marks in Oscar's arm that he hadn't seen a day before? Oscar was the definition of a weight drained fighter.

 

Are you sure about that, Oscar weighing more on fight night? I don't remember that, in fact I recall Oscar never allowing himself to be weighed on fight night.

As was mentioned before though, what's the big deal with the IV marks? What better way to rehydrate?

I don't deny he was weight drained, but he didn't look awful at first. He looked like the same plodding Oscar he turned into, he only started to look awful after Manny had been laying into him for a couple of rounds.

And whether he was weight drained or not, not many people picked Manny to win the fight, and they all knew it was at 147 - ie Oscar would be weight drained. That was a fucking good win regardless, especially having fought at 130 earlier that year.

 

Getting IV right before you enter the ring says a lot.

And yeah, he weighed more - unless my memory fails me but I'm pretty sure on this one. The fact that Oscar couldn't even gain any water weight (yet was getting IV right up until he walked into the ring!!) tells you how drained he was. And weak.

 

You'd think after a 17 year Pro career you'd have pieced together how to make weight properly.