Nevada pushing for a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight

I wonder how this hearing will go if Mosley beats Mayweather. They'll probably say no changes are needed.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-mayweather-mosley-20100430,0,44910.story

 

Vegas needs boxing more than ever right now. That place is hurting bad. Even the UFC isn't doing it for them.

 

Either PBF will deem the comissions rules inadequate, or he'll price himself out of the fight, or he'll retire having "nothing left to prove". (and some will believe him).

 

I don't trust the fucken commission one little bit,.. I'd prefer the tests be done independently by the USADA, keep the fucken in-tight promoter/commission well and truelly out of it.

 

Ah! I am on a roll. First I predicted Edwin Valero's suicide, and now my prediction on Pac/PBF is coming true as well.

The bottom line for these athletic commissions is money. It's sad, but it is a truth that is necessary to understand in order to either see why things work the way they do, or to affect change. That is why I am personally in almost a constant state of frustration whenever this comes up, because I heavily dislike Floyd Mayweather Jr. Heavily. And yet it is only Floyd's capacity to bring a lot of money to bear that puts the pressure on the commissions to even consider change. In fact, there are scant few fighters in all of boxing who could single-handedly have any impact whatsoever on how the commissions function, and since boxers are not a cooperative bunch, it's either one of those few elite fighters take a stand or NOTHING.

In fact, if not for the looming specter of Pac/PBF as a fight for the bean counters to drool over, I am not sure even Floyd has enough leverage to change even the color of the stapler on the desk of someone at the NSAC.

But yet here we are, and if the money is there, the NSAC does indeed wake up and get out of bed.

However, as encouraging as it may be that the NSAC is considering updating drug testing amongst fighters, I see this as an irony that is almost tragic. They assume far too much. I firmly believe that even if these fellows scramble to get updated testing in place by fall that they are in for a surprise when they fail to secure their Brinks truck full of money, because Pac ain't fighting in Nevada once the testing is any good.

I would just about bet the farm that when PBF wins his next fight, Pac retires for good citing the "need" to "give back to his countrymen" in his noble effort to be a politician back home. And his teary-eyed fans will come to the forums and post about how great this man really is, giving up so much just to go on and help the poor and unfortunate in his country by crusading for good in the Senate.

And if that doesn't happen May 2, then expect it to happen JUST the same in September, when PBF drops the drug testing demand, and adds the "must fight in Nevada" demand, which Pac's camp will ferociously fight citing all manner of reasons which will pop out of the magic hat. Pac fans will lambaste and ridicule Floyd for his unfair, narrow-minded attempts to force Pac to fight in Nevada where he is morally opposed to gambling or prostitution or something. We will then hear about how Manny wants his farewell fight in a special location, or that he can't adapt to the dry Nevada air, or (if you read the posted article closely... closely...) Las Vegas doesn't have a big enough site for a fight of this magnitude.

You can see Bob Arum already setting the stage even at this early hour, suggesting that indeed Las Vegas IS NOT sufficient for this fight... and he would so much prefer... TEXAS. Oh? You mean the place that let Pac fight last time around with... NO TESTING at all? Is that why the team of the New York jew and little Philippino from Kibawe are suddenly, inexplicably enamored with the lone star state? All of a sudden Arum wants EVERY Pac fight to take place there. Hmmm.

And for all you Fightbeat regulars who scoffed at the thought that these commissions were intentionally keeping ineffective out-of-date testing procedures in place because (in a nutshell) there just wasn't anything in it for them to change - are you learning something? It was wink wink, nudge nudge with the promoters who brought in their prime attractions to Las Vegas time after time, knowing they never had to worry about their "champs" testing positive. Why upset the money train? In fact, the only thing that seems to have them changing their minds is, well, a BIGGER money train!

So good work, Nevada, but you're in for a shocker when Pac informs the world it's time for him to retire now. And if that happens before fall, you can pretty much guarantee the NSAC drops the "new" testing effort like a ton of bricks due to "logistics" and how it just costs too much.

Oh, but of course right now they are saying they could have it done in a matter of MONTHS! MONTHS! So if it's that easy, then please explain to me why they don't have it in place ALREADY?

 

You can't possibly believe what you are writing. After all this crusading for better testing, you think that if Nevada implements USADA testing that Floyd isn't going to be all over Pac again? The guy is loving this. The minute the NSAC announces the new testing, Floyd is going to start taunting Manny to fight him in Nevada. Floyd evens obsesses about the testing in the 24/7 episodes with Mosley! PBF believes Manny is juicing, and he is making every effort to make Manny look bad in this regard.

He wouldn't pass up a chance like this for anything.

Let's have a friednly wager. I say that if this is implemented in Nevada before Floyd or Manny announce any sort of retirement that it is Pac who retires FIRST.

 

Outlander. I would LOVE IT if you were correct that Floyd is going to start taunting Manny to fight him in Nevada, and is serious about making the fight happen.
I want boxing to win. I want the fight to happen.
However I totally stand by what I said.

PBF will either:
• deem the comissions rules inadequate.
• price himself out of the fight
• retire having "nothing left to prove"

I'll happily have a friendly wager with you.
How about this?

If PBF:
• agrees to whatever the boxing commission rules as suitable drug tests.
• agrees on no more than a 50/50 purse split
• Doesn't pull any other rabbit out of his hat that would prevent the fight from happening.

In other words if PBF agrees to fight Pacman according to whatever the boxing commission rules as suitable drug tests, for no more than a 50/50 purse split, and doesn't try to put in any other unprecedented stipulation.

And Manny turns down the fight...

Then I lose.


If PBF:
• deems the comissions rules inadequate.
or
• prices himself out of the fight
or
• retires having "nothing left to prove"

You lose.

???

 

I'll take that wager. Manny is the question mark in all this.

 

O.K Hut*Hut.
Now just so there is no wiggle-room here:

Can you state in your own words what you think the bet is?
I want to ensure that you don't come back afterwards with some "oh no that's not what i meant" type excuse.

 

As usual, fucking awesome, flawless. :bears:

However,.. do you believe they will allow the USADA in?... or will it just be the Nevada's version of drug testing?.. Nevada's 'customized' version of blood sampling?... I don't trust them for one, single, fucking second, Arum and Nevada made themselves very clear that they're 'tight' when it comes to Pacquiao's useage,.. Arum with his "Only if the commission! only if the commission says!"......then Nevada came to his assistance with the 'random-but announced' Urine-test front, conducted while neither were in training for anything,.. "See, they good ta go now!" ....:boohoo::boohoo: ,.. they have the integrity of the mafia,..and personally, I hope they never become involved, the scum employ crooked judges, and pass through fighters with rigged wraps. I also believe they kept a few of Oscar De La Hoya's 'positive' drug tests a secret?,..WTF ?.. was that for "the benefit of boxing?"

 

Why is it so necessary for Floyd to fight in Nevada his whole career? You have to wonder about those shots he's receiving in his hands. Maybe that's the real reason he never fought Cotto, because he knows it would have wound up in New York to maximize the dollars. Now I don't really have a problem with Floyd getting shots in his hands, only that they're denying it's true.

I also don't think Floyd wants to fight Manny. I actually think he's afraid to. If Floyd believed he was as good as he claims he'd think he could beat Manny with or without roids? Shane didn't require a roids test on Manny when he offered to fight him, so why does Floyd? Because he didn't want to take the risk is why.

 

Nah..Floyd wants Pacquiao. Everyone is saying that Pacman is KING and Floyd's ego is hurt. Mayweather, if he beats Shane convincingly will definitely do what it takes to make the fight.

 

Worst post ever.

Manny is the one who quickly jumped out of the fight and had the Clottey fight unsurprisingly made 2 days later in Texas when he rejected to be tested 14 days before the fight. If the commission implements a blood testing program for the fight (And every boxing fan should support this) expect Manny to announce he's switching boxing for politics.

And expect pacquiaoheads to support him. (But that goes without saying, doesn't it)

 

He's fought 24 times out of Nevada, I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Apparently, Nevada must feel that Pacquiao's true reason for not fighting was that it would've been the USADA, and not them, presiding over the drug-testing. Otherwise, why would they carry on this supposed charade of wanting to incorporate random testing?

 

Here is where we are going to have problems. The rabbit out of the hat clause is also ambiguous at best, since we could differ greatly on what is a fight-killer and what isn't. Floyd says he wants certain gloves, Manny doesn't like those, negotiations end.. is that really Floyd killing the fight? Hard to say.

But the biggest reason by far that this would never work is that Nevada could very well decide to implement "improved" testing to try and curb the growing sentiment that their testing isn't good enough, not because they actually want the tests to work. They could easily add blood testing at 2 pre-announced dates prior to fights (like a 6 week test, and a 2 week test, for example) and then declare the tests to be foolproof.

I would be willing to accept the "rabbit out of the hat" clause in good faith, but the bolded clause must read:

• agrees to whatever the boxing commission rules as suitable drug tests, as long as those tests closely follow USADA protocol

Then Floyd can't weasel out because of something like "Nevada can conduct random tests anytime time from 8am-4pm, but the USADA allows random testing 7am-7pm". That would be a case where Nevada is indeed closely following the USADA protocol, but Floyd is intentionally sabotaging the fight. However, if Nevada decides they will use the same laboratories as the USADA, and both blood and urine tests like the USADA... but no random tests... well, then Floyd is justified for nixing the fight IMO.

Think about this for a moment. Based on everything I have read and everything I have seen about USADA tests, there is literally not one single part of their protocol that doesn't have a really solid rationale behind it. They are constantly modifying the way they do things as they discover loopholes being exploited by cheats. They are basing what they are doing on real life examples of actual attempts to cheat. If you take any part of their protocol away, or change it significantly, the system is no longer reliable.

There are a lot if "ifs" here, but I think if Nevada implements a testing process that is substantively similar to the USADA, and Manny and Floyd begin negotiating to fight there, that there is a modest chance Floyd just plain chickens out. But I think there is a far, far, greater chance that Manny refuses (through numerous possible means, including retirement) to fight Floyd in any state or situation where USADA testing is employed.

Thus my wager.

 

What are you talking about bro. Those 24 fights outside of Nevada don't count. I'll Holla 5000

 

Yeah, this could all be smoke-and-mirrors to address both the rumblings about testing in boxing, and to try and secure very lucrative fights. There may be no intent whatsoever to genuinely make the testing any better.

And I also agree that even if improvements to the testing are implemented, there is far, FAR more chance of corruption within the NSAC than there would be if the USADA were actually brought in a la PBF/Mosley. This is why I am skeptical about the fight happening even if Nevada "improves" testing. There are so many things they could do to make the testing marginally better, but in reality no more effective than they were.

I've given this a bit of thought as of late, and here is what I think the best possible avenue for the NSAC would be:

(1) Bring in the USADA on a contracted basis for fights that fit a specific criteria. This criteria would be based both on the magnitude of the fight, and on its championship ramifications.
(a) If the fight is for a championship within a major sanctioning body (WBC, IBF, WBA, WBO) USADA testing is employed (some leeway here as goofy belts like the "Intercontinental Pacific Champion" could be ignored)
(b) If the fight has one or both participants ranked in the top 10 in their weight divisions by an independent ranking body (e.g. Ring magazine) USADA testing is employed.

(2) USADA costs would be lesser because the NSAC (or other commissions) could negotiate a "bulk" arrangement with them, throwing a lot of money their way. This will help offset cost.

(3) Fighters who are in a fight fitting 1a or 1b above SPLIT the additional costs for the USADA testing. It is mandatory if they are fighting in Nevada and the fight qualifies. If a fighter's purse is less than twice of what the costs of the testing are, the NSAC picks up the tab in those rare cases.

(4) If either fighter explicitly requests the testing through a formal submittal form, USADA testing would be implemented for that fight. The requesting fighter picks up the tab. If both fighters submit the form prior to the beginning of training, they split the costs for the enhanced testing. Neither fighter has to tell the other directly about their intentions. File the form prior to a certain date, and the NSAC then informs the fighters at the beginning of training camps that USADA testing is in place, period.

(5) If the NSAC unilaterally sees the fight as test-worthy despite not qualifying in some other clause, they can deem USADA necessary and employ it. In those cases, the NSAC picks up the tab. This would be important primarily in a case where a fringe contender comes to Las Vegas to fight in a relatively small bout, but has a notorious history of using banned substances in their other fights, either in the US or abroad.

(6) The NSAC CANNOT overrule any of the above clauses and suspend testing for any reason where it is otherwise mandated. The only leeway they have is in (5) above, where they decide to use or not use the USADA in flukey cases that will probably almost never happen. I might add something simple about giving the NSAC the ability to suspend USADA testing in cases where a fight is so small and insignificant that the fighters purses aren't even a fraction of testing costs, yet one of them requests the USADA testing. These would be cases where the fight does not qualify in any way for the enhanced testing, but yet one or both fighters request it. You wouldn't want every single barroom fight in Nevada getting paid USADA testing.

I fail to see how this would cause any problems at all, even if it were implemented TODAY. For 99% of the fights in Nevada, the NSAC isn't paying one extra dime. And better still, they are saving some previously spent money on every fight where the USADA comes in since they would no longer have to pay to have their crappy piss tests done for those fights. Add that money up, and you can then use it to pay for enhanced testing in the 1% of fights where the NSAC has to pick up the tab, and probably have money left over.

If fighters do not follow enhanced testing protocol, refuse to give samples, that sort of thing, then NSAC penalizes them viciously. Could abort the fight, could fine them $5000 per day until they comply, ban them for some period, whatever. Enough motivation to ensure compliance if they fight in Nevada.

Maybe the best thing of all about this system would be that a fighter cannot avoid the testing and still advance in their career and income. The better you get, and the more money you make, the more likely it is that you will be required to undergo USADA testing in Nevada. So what is motivating the fighters is also essentially forcing them to get tested, which ensures that cheaters simply cannot ever elevate to a high-profile level in boxing.

Do this and the USADA wins, Nevada wins, the fighters win, boxing wins, and even if/when the NSAC (or other commission) is full of corruption, it has minimal bearing on the clean-ness of fights in Nevada. If I can come up with this in a few days, why can't the NSAC? What is stopping them from implementing this system starting, say, Sept 1. 2010?

 

There's no fucking way NSAC would outsource this. Not only would it give the appearance that they themselves can't handle the job themselves, it would represent a wasted opportunity to increase their budgets (and therefore their waste). It would also dilute their authority, open the door for oursourcing other services, and possibly raise doubts as to whether or not it should continue to exist in its current state.

 

That seems fair enough Outlander.
I'm certainly not going to be silly & distort the "rabbit out of the hat" clause to absurdity. Happy to take that on good faith.

As far as how subjective it is judging how far the whatever boxing commission rules as suitable drug tests can differ from USADA testing before it stops closely following USADA protocol, that's more of a problem for your side than mine.

Even if the testing conforms exactly to the USADA protocol, and Manny refuses, he can't cite the "I won't be pushed around by PBF" reason in light of that article.
He can only cite the "doesn't like needles" reason, which, if the article is true, he seems to have abandoned.

However, If another article appears, stating that the article in the O.P is incorrect, then we are back to square one, as without that article, we are not even having this conversation.


So our wager reads:

If PBF:
• agrees to whatever the boxing commission rules as suitable drug tests, as long as those tests closely follow USADA protocol
• agrees on no more than a 50/50 purse split
• Doesn't pull any other rabbit out of his hat that would prevent the fight from happening.

In other words if PBF agrees to fight Pacman according to whatever the boxing commission rules as suitable drug tests, as long as those tests closely follow USADA protocol, for no more than a 50/50 purse split, and doesn't try to put in any other unprecedented stipulation.

And Manny turns down the fight...

Then I lose.


If PBF:
• deems the comissions rules inadequate.
or
• prices himself out of the fight
or
• retires having "nothing left to prove"

You lose.


Personally, I hope that we are both wrong & the fight happens.

 

That is the only part of this I have ever stressed.

Awesome, awesome news (if true). Assuming it is, Manny has agreed to abide with whatever protocols are instituted by the state commission. Now is the time to implement USDA (or close facsimile) testing and make it the RULE.

IF Manny backs out because of that then there he is indefensible and at least in my mind will have answered the question on whether he has been been using PEDs.

 

Why not? You don't think that right now they hire some local lab to do the piss tests? Or do you believe that some fellow answering the phones over there puts on latex gloves and doubles as a drug screener? I could be wrong, but I highly doubt they have full-time, salaried (w/benefits) employees just to do their own drug screening, and if there are not any fights that week they just sit on their ass and watch porn.

Next, isn't their authority ALREADY diluted by the likes of Floyd Mayweather and probably soon enough other boxers? Or do you think that no one knows what Floyd is up to? Because no one has HBO? Floyd obsesses on the testing episode after episode of 24/7. Millions of people ALREADY know the score, and in large part I'd bet that is why the NSAC is doing what they're doing - to help MAINTAIN their existence.

No, you will have to do better than that. I stand by my proposition. NSAC and other commissions do not have the budget to re-create an in-house lab & employee system as large and state-of-the-art as the USADA, not in a million years. Even if they did not use the USADA directly, if they implemented similar testing they would UNDOUBTEDLY outsource major parts of it anyway.

And finally, I submit to you that outsourcing this testing, making the NSAC the premiere commission in terms of reviewing and updating their policies for the safety & integrity of fighters and boxing in their state will not only NOT jeopardize their existence.... but will more than likely ENHANCE their reputation, and stress the importance of an active and informed commission. They will also be able to bring in fights that no one else will, as other high-profile fighters are also now asking for more stringent testing. It's moves like this one that help to validate the NSAC, not the other way around.

 

DONE! I hope this NSAC deal happens, and they do end up with USADA style tests. I think that is the only thing that has any chance of getting Manny back to the table with Floyd, as basically nothing else is going to change (unless Floyd loses in which case it's all meaningless as Manny fights Shane next).

And no matter how this works out, I want so badly for Manny to make fools out of all the people like me who think he's juicing. I will happily accept my dunce cap the day he accepts the better testing and KO's Floyd. Happily.

 

Your above system is ideal Outlander,...and I believe you know it's wishful thinking, you would know that cutting off the fingers of the commission in association with promoters is about as futile as chopping off the limbs of a Mexican-walking fish,... they'll grow back. "Where's the fucken breathing space ya commy!" ....When you think of promoters and the commission you ask what is it, in itself, where's the fun and exclusivity of thier club?, your taking the 'game' out of capitalism away, when you earn millions upon millions, with the alligned cronie mindset, it's the underground scheming and conspiring that's worth living for. They'll twist and claw holes through such a system, it's thier corrupt nature and oh so many people are sadly on that spectrum, you see it on forums all the time for example, when a poster becomes a moderator, is awarded control and power, he shreiks with delight,...only to soon realise the ban, delete threads, and edit / move others posts buttons don't work,...":crying: Well what's the point!!! waaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!" ..

 

He admitted/got caught taking those shots in a Detroit. It was illegal and he was never penalized. His fight versus Carlos Hernandez.

 

:bears::bears::bears:

 

It's one thing for the commission to preside over, enforce, and legislate PED testing procedures, before shipping off samples to a lab to be tested.

It's another to hand over the entire operation to a autonomous organization like the USADA, and in doing so, surrendering their authority and control.

And while it may read in the fine print that the NSAC were the first to turn to the USADA for its drug-testing, the big story will be: can the USADA save boxing? Which, of course, will be an indictment of every commission in the country, including Nevada's.

 

it wasn't illegal it just wasn't legal...if that makes any sense.

 

It doesn't. Either something is legal or it's not.

 

That IF the fight doesn't take place it'll be because A) Team Manny claims Floyd's demands on testing are unreasonable or B) Manny will retire.

I'd put $20 or whatever sig bet you like on that.