The Original Untouchables?

Which black contenders did Tunney unfairly skip, in your view? I mean, for one thing & putting colour aside, he has Foster beat hands down for competition. Not saying he's an auto-selection above Foster, who you ranked in your top three, but he certainly steeled himself against superior opposition.

 

I think his opposition is somewhat overrated... his biggest wins were against Greb who was really a middleweight, Dempsey who was well past it, Tommy Gibbons (a very good win), Carpentier (who had just lost to Gibbons and had been knocked into next week by Battling Siki not to long before that), Tommy Loughran, who was still pretty green and more or less a middleweight at that time... after that, what have you got? Battling Levinsky was solid... other than that its a lot of no-names for the most part... certainly doesnt even come close to the opposition faced just by the guys in the 1940s (Charles, moore, Bivins and Marshall... hell throw Maxim in there too) all of those guys faced far tougher opposition on a consistent basis than Gene Tunney did... he could have fought Siki... never even mind black fighters like that, he could have fought Maxie Rosenbloom (everyone else did) ... it might be a bit cheap to pick on him for not fighting any black guys (he sure as hell wasnt the only white guy in those days doing that kind of thing, and who knows what potentially great fighters no one ever heard of because of them being mismanaged and relegated to fighting only each other over and over) but to me even if you forgive it completely, his resume doesnt warrant putting him above Moore, and I cant put him above Foster who, blah opposition aside, utterly DEMOLISHED everyone in his path in the most emphatic way possible... dont get me wrong, I think Tunney was a hell of a fighter, but top 3 all time at 175?? not on your life... I could think of 10 light heavies I would pick to beat him head-to-head, and at least 5 I would rate above him in terms of greatness

 

I actually pick him, head-to-head, as the best the division ever had.

 

Tunney was a very clever fighter with a good chin who did better against legitimate heavyweights than most 175lbrs have a tendency to do. Being smart and tough would make him a handful for a lot of fighters, but in fairness, other 175lbrs did achieve more, @ 175.

 

That's a fair argument to make, though I think his resume does in fact stack up nicely against anyones, & as I said, he's my starting favourite against any 175lber in history --- Charles inclusive.

 

"The only guys who merit such accolades had to have held the WBC belt at some point" - mikE

 

That SOUNDS Good, but C'Mon Now..."For his Time", Tunney had a Fairly MODERN Style, but it's Still VERY ARCHAIC in Comparison to the ELITE Lightheavy's Being Noted in this Thread...



REED:mj:

 

And that is the same argument I would make for Klitschko against Louis. Did Joe achieve more? Yes. But man-to-man that makes no odds....Joe is at at the most serious disadvantage of his professional career. Nobody would ever dare say that Tunney achieved more at 175 than Moore or Foster. But that doesn't mean he can't hang in with them. The distinction is subtle, but it is there.

 

Sure, it is. I understand the point you were making perfectly. I just don't see the Klitschkos as good enough fighters to win that bout, that's all. I don't think they were. It's the tallest of orders, so no mark against them.

 

To me Charles's opposition wipes the floor with Tunney's and Tunney's legit heavyweight was a 190 pound old man ready to be taken

Charles fought blood and guts and tooth and nail with a fresh, brutally abusive heavyweight in Marciano when he himself was quite a bit past his best days... I think Tunney would have possibly died against Marciano

Charles boxed as beautifully as Tunney ever did and he he was a superior hitter by a long shot... I dont mean to sound like im totally shitting on Tunney, but to me Charles is just clearly a greater fighter than he was

 

Friend, Charles' opposition wipes the floor with almost every fighter in history. It is contestably the greatest resume of all-time.

 

Very true

You are a blessing here, its fun to argue about boxing with someone who actually has no agenda, just great knowledge and love for the sport and it's rich history

We haven't had too many folks come along in quite some time that really know their stuff and Mythical Matchups was becoming a stale dead zone. You helped bring it back.:kidcool:

 

You know, I enjoy the forums, here, & echo your sentiments in kind. Every word. Down with agendas! ::

 

Exactly!:bears: