The Shavers that fought Holmes vs the Jones that fought Ruiz. I expect pretty gung-ho answers me, but really Glass Jaw Jones only has to last 6 or so rounds before Shavermaker gasses. The question is, can he?
Roy's best chance would be a blitz stoppage pretty early. The speed disparity is mammoth and Shavers' chin wasn't exactly iron. 20% chance I'd say. The chances of him lasting long enough to win a decision or a late stoppage are probably more about 10%. 70% chance Shavers puts him in a deep restful sleep.
I agree with that but mind you Shavers wore himself out all the time throwing his massive, horribly slow and innacurate haymakers. Albeit they could break the shell of a tortoise but Roy couldn't take many on the chin from anybody with a punch. Shavers' power only makes the margin for error that much smaller. I take Shavers by KO 65% of the time. Roy by KO 15% and Roy by decision 20%.
Shavers only has to touch him with that right hand and it is over I dont care how big a difference the speed is, if Jones tried a blitz stoppage he'd run into something
Difficult to say. Shavers really was not anywhere near as special as he is credited with being --- no one ever calls him an elite fighter, but he is thrown into the mix with other names he plainly wasn't upto being compared with. He was extremely limited. Jones has a heady mix of reflexive, hand & footspeed, all of which served as handy Shavers kryptonite. I have to really question Jones going for the early knockout --- his one outing at the weight was against the much less dangerous Ruiz, & Jones fought a clever, pensive fight. I can only see him shooting for a decision. For all the advantages Jones has, Shavers is a big man who has been in there with the best of the big boys in a strong era --- the experience of fighting chaps like Lyle, Norton, Ali, Holmes, Young, Quarry...it gives a man a lot. He would only need one semi-solid punch to end it, but even one shot would require a lot of things to go his way, as would Jones keeping Shavers at just the right distance for all twelve rounds, without so much as a single slip-up. I will take Jones on points in the end, but it is not something you'd want to be betting on.
You mean all 7 or so rounds. No way Shavers has KO power late in the fight. He'd have trouble getting off his still let alone KOing someone. I've seen clips and full fights of Shavers, but the only time this glaring stamina issue was SERIOUSLY noticed by myself is when someone made a joke about it. Only around 3 or 4 of his 68 KOs have been after the 7th round...
I agree Shavers' stamina had limits, but as you know, getting hit & hit hard & routinely contributes to a downturn in endurance. Shavers had sloppy defense & was regularly hit (were it not for his foreboding power, opposition fighters would've opened up a lot more, given his defensive limitations) but Jones is not merely a lighter puncher than most of Shavers' rivals, but he'd never dare even sit down on a shot, or set himself for a volley of punches. He'd be pitter-patting every second of every round, & as such, I think Shavers' lungs wouldn't look as bad against Jones as they did with Holmes & co. Not saying Shavers wouldn't run out of petrol, but he might carry that payload deeper into the fight, IMO, than he would against legitimate Heavyweights, with a legitimate Heavyweight punch.
I dont see anybody calling Shavers special EVER everyone knows his chin was shaky, his stamina was awful, he wasnt overly skilled, he cut easily... he loses 99% of the MMs he is put in here but this is him against a LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT who may have had a somewhat shaky chin... he just has to land one right hand and this fight turns in his favor immediately bigger, stronger, sturdier heavyweights than Roy Jones were knocked stupid by that right hand Jones gets knocked cold here no matter what
its actually 5, but what does that mean??? he also won 5 10 round decisions in his career... in those fights, did he just hug his opponents and give away rounds 8,9 and 10? he was shaking Ali as late as the 14th round his stamina sucked, but he could still land single shots with the same brutal power late in fights... he just couldnt sustain an attack without getting winded... but the power was DEFINITELY still palpable
I didn't say people call him special, just that he is sometimes over-rated, & lumped in with better fighters than he should be. If he loses 99% of his Mythicals, he probably should. I could envision him losing to Jones. It's at best a borderline call in either man's favour. Shavers was, all-in-all, pretty terrible.
but his right hand did terrible things to people bigger, stronger people than Jones Shavers would go right after a guy smaller than him
I'm sorry, Roy is my dude.... but I cant pick him over ANY elite heavyweight puncher in history. I dont think the past primmed Roy that beat Ruiz was as fleet footed as a prime Holmes, and Shavers caught Larry eventually. Shavers would catch Roy with that same right hand eventually, and but unlike Holmes.... Roy would be on the canvas until a stretcher arrives for him.
Shavers caught Holmes once in twenty-four rounds. It isn't the best case for saying he'd KO Jones, IMO. Of course, Jones at Heavy is no prime Holmes, so...
Holmes had much more to deter Shavers with at heavyweight. Shavers is allot more bullish against a Lightheavyweight.
Exactly. Theres no lightheavy that I see beating Shavers. RJ, Foster, Spinks... Shavers would have KO'd all three brutally.
I fancy Charles would have blootered 13 shades of shit out of him, but your general point is well taken.
Tunney pummels Shavers, & Charles would also have proven too sharp for him at mid-range. Let me add another contender to the Shavers whipping club for Light-Heavies. Billy Conn.
The fact Tunney never fought any notable black dude makes him a big '?' in my book. Generally, whitey can't fight. Charles most definitely > Tunney.
LOL. There are very few men, be they black, white, or any other colour, who could hang with the best Tunney. Can't see Shavers being one. You fellas think Shavers would've knocked out Conn, or not?
How the fuck does Conn beat Shavers? He gets more mileage out of that one magical KO loss to Louis than anybody would ever deserve Give him 100 chances against Louis and he never duplicates that, I guarantee it. Louis was overly methodical in that fight, he kept trying to land perfect shots... if he had abandoned defense entirely he could have stopped Conn sooner Conn hit like a light-punching middleweight... how the heck does he deter Shavers... people act like Shavers just fell apart everytime someone hit him... he was KOd by heavyweights who could hit... he was warn out by heavyweights who could hit,,, when was he ever gassed and KOd by a feather-fist like Conn? Conn is a million times the boxer Shavers ever was or could hope to be, but he is a SMALL Light Heavyweight with a small punch... Shavers would jump on him and he would absolutely stop him... Conn was a vastly superior fighter P4P but that is meaningless here I also think Shavers knocks the crap out of Tunney too... just as I think Dempsey in his prime (not old and one or two fights removed from a THREE YEAR RETIREMENT) knocks Tunney dead as well Tunney, like Conn with the Louis match, gets vastly more mileage out of a pair of TEN ROUND DECISION wins over an over the hill Dempsey and wins over a one-eyed middleweight (Greb) than anyone could ever hope to deserve
