Ray Leonard vs. Mike McCallum @ 154

Who do you got?

 

Leonard's speed and movement would be too much in the end for McCallum, though Mike def gives him a helluva fight.

 

I've got McCallum. It was never a Leonard looking truly comfortable at this weight, & nothing made you more uncomfortable here than Mr. McCallum.

 

he looked comfortable knocking out Kalule

gimme Leonard on points with the skillfull McCallum giving him a tight argument

 

McCallum. SRL never fought outside his vintage when it counted.

 

Is this prime for prime or late 80s? Very different answer in either case. McCallum in fairly dominant fashion in the later case, Leonard probably finds a way to win in his prime.

 

This fight would of been awesome.

 

Leonard could actually win this fight. But I see far more scenarios in which McCallum wins.

Honestly if the Leonard that attacked Hearns from the outset fought McCallum, Sugar would end up stopped late.

If the Leonard that chose to wage war in a phone booth against Duran fought McCallum, again Leonard is stopped late.

If the Leonard that moved and tried to pot shot Hagler, yet languished on the ropes far too often stepped in against McCallum, Leonard likely is on the short end of a close decision.

However, if the prime Leonard that faced Duran in their second fight that looked like a 147 pound version of Ali with a pinpoint jab and footwork that kept the distance exactly in his favor faced McCallum, I can easily McCallum losing on points. He probably makes it close late as Leonard comes down off his bicycle but still loses.

The problem is that Leonard, although very capable of being slick, loved to mix it up. He had an eqo in his younger prime that wouldn't allow him to fight smart like he did against Hagler. Leonard didn't just want to win, he honestly wanted to beat guys.

And at 154 in his prime, Mike McCallum would be the best opponent Leonard would ever step in the ring with. I thought this would be a great fight back in the 80's and I still think it would have been. Too bad McCallum wasn't as popular an opponent as Donnie LaLonde back in 1988. Oh wait......

 

Leonard would definitely fight this on his bike. Only way for him to win. But using his speed, particularly his foot speed, I think he could find a way to win a very gruelling one - McCallum was about as good and destructive a methodical combination puncher as there ever was, but he was far from fleet footed. If Ray stands with him he loses and has an unbelievably shitty night. At the times this fight might actually have happened a McCallum stoppage win would be likely.

 

McCallum would ride over SRL like a tidal wave, and he still may not get the decision.

 

Yeah just like he tidal waved Kalambay.

 

I just never caught onto this idea Leonard was so great in his rematch with Duran. Contrary to popular belief, it was quite the even contest until Duran quit. No one dominated anyone, & Duran, having abused his body, was not the same fighter he'd only recently been anyway. Then, he up & quit. Leonard was barely in front when he did.

 

Well, I'd watch the fight again then. Leonard clearly made Duran miss far more. He made Duran chase him far more. And Duran was clearly never able to keep his feet set to throw combinations. The fights were only 5 months apart so it's not like Duran had a shit load of time to destroy his body and zap his skills.


I had Leonard up 4-2 in terms of rounds. He clearly employed a style that Duran wasn't comfortable with and it was in stark contrast to their first battle. And it's that style Leonard would need to use to have a chance against McCallum.

The fights were only 5 months apart so it's not like Duran had a shit load of time to destroy his body.

 

Don't need much time when you have the type of demons Duran had. Ask a junkie if five months is long enough to deteriorate significantly, submitting to your vices. Duran is no different with food. Rapid swings in weight are bad for anyone, but for precision instruments, such as boxers, it's no small thing.

That said, Leonard fought smarter & out-right better, but he has this aura of dominating Duran in the second fight, & it just did not happen to my eyes. McCallum was similar in some ways, but a different kettle of fish at the same time. Leonard would run him close, but he just never hit the same heights at 154, even though he had no real reason not to. I think a lot of McCallum at this weight, though --- I'd back him to beat Hearns, too, so it's no knock on my part against Leonard.

 

Well, my thoughts about McCallum are well-documented. In my opinion he is the best 154 pound fighter to ever walk the planet. So me picking him over Leonard or Hearns is also not a slam to either guy.

Both guys COULD beat McCallum at 154, but if they fought 10 times, McCallum wins more than he loses.

 

Leonard wins this one. He outboxes McCallum, who can't quite get to him for most of the fight, and then holds his own when he needs to in exchanges. McCallum give a good account of himself, but is unable to get to Leonard enough and is often beaten to the punch even when Leonard is within his range.

 

:bears: Somebody said it!

 

Oh, please. Leonard detractors have been trying forever to make a case for it being an even fight. It's not like Ramonza has said something groundbreaking.::

And I've watched that fight plenty of times and I've never seen it as an even fight before Duran tapped out. Leonard was winning, it wasn't a 7 - 0 shut out, but Leonard was definitely winning.

 

Look, when somebody says something good about Duran I feel it important to positively reinforce the intention with enthusiasm.::

 

Duran gets plenty of love around here. Unfortunately his haters are more vocal than his fans.

 

Leonard by decision. Speed and workrate attracts the eyes of the judges. no doubt.

 

Whether the fight was even or not, people continue to act as if SRL were dominating Duran. As long as that's the case, I don't think we can be reminded enough that in fact, it was a very close fight when Duran quit, with the outcome very much in doubt.

It's a perfect example of how boxing history gets rewritten - the idea that SRL somehow whipped Duran into submission. In fact, what made Duran's quitting so surprising (and frustrating to his fans) was that he was in the fight.

The fight had a different complexion than the first, but it's anyone's quess what that would've meant for the outcome should the fight have gone on.

 

Love alone is not enough!::

 

Duran's fans are FAR MORE vocal than his "haters". That short hairy panamanian walks on water around here.....are you kidding me!

 

Duran was the man. :kidcool:

 

Absolutely not...Duran haters go way out of their way to diminish him.

 

Surprise, surprise, you are exaggerating when it comes to Leonard. There is a world of difference between thinking Leonard was ahead, even clearly, in the fight and thinking Duran was getting "whipped" or "dominated".


And if you want to talk about history being rewritten, your comments about Trinidad's gloves fit that description much more than Leonard-Duran. Or you attempts to make a case for an actual draw in Whitaker-Chavez.

 

WTF are you talking about?!!! So funny how defensive you get anytime your precious SRL is talked about as if he were just a mere mortal.

My comment isn't directed at anything you said cry-baby!!! All I'm saying is, many people act like SRL dominated Duran. It's not the case. And pointing this out now and then is helpful in reminding people.

 

You really are clueless. I HATE Leonard probably more than anyone ever. I just refuse to try to unfairly diminish him and his career. It's amazing how little you know...not that it ever stops you from running your mouth.

 

Oh excuse me for not being current on what your personal attitudes are about particular fighters. How ignorant can I be?

I'm just calling it like I see it. Everytime SRL comes up, there you are, bitching like a girl.