Does Emile Griffith...

...have the best competition in the sport over the past fifty years?

What do you think? Is there someone who rates above him in this regard, between 1960 & the present?

 

Ali must be close, in that he polished off one era {Liston/Patterson/Moore, Late 50's era} and was still hard at it just 6 years before Tyson became Champ, fighting, and beating, just about every worthwhile fighter along the way.

I know Ali got started slightly after 1960, but Patterson was a 50's champ, and Liston was Pattersons master, and it is there that Ali picked up. He didn't leave off until he was losing to future Heavyweight Champ Trevor Berbick. His "reach" definitely extends some way back into the 50's.

Quite the resume, both in terms of names and timespan.


The Fullmer brothers, between them, had a ridiculous resume. Ray Robinson, Jimmy Ellis, Dick Tiger, Basilio...lot of big names between them.

 

Good call. There's a discussion to be had between him and Ali. I'm not sure anyone else comes close.

 

I liked the way he humiliated Monzon as a 60 year old. :clapagain:

 

Personally, and don't laugh, but I'd give the nod to Everett 'Big Foot' Martin....

 

:bears: Holy shit!

 

It wasn't expressly stated, but, you know......a win here and there over the competition in question would sho' go down a treat. :laugh11:

 

Gatti fought a lot of big names............he is one of the very few guys out there to have fought both Oscar and Floyd. Shane only got round to that very recently. Fuck it, Gatti had that trick completed 4 years ago. ::

 

OK. Fair enough.

 

I object to people pulling out names of guys who LOST to everybody like Everett Martin or Frankie Swindell

Emile Griffith fought and BEAT most of the best fighters in the world from 147-160 between 1959 and the end of his career... he has absolutely the best level of opposition amongst all fighters in the last 60 years... I dodnt even think it's particularly close, Ali included

going in order from 1960 to the end, Griffith fought:

Gaspar Ortega, Denny Moyer, Florentino Fernandez, Willie Toweel, Jorge Fernandez, Benny Paret, Isaac Logart, Ralph Dupas, Don Fullmer, Luis Rodriguez, Holly Mims, Rubin Carter (a total fluke KO loss that I'd give Carter about a 1% chance of ever duplicating) , Dick Tiger, Joey Archer, Nino Benvenuti, Joe Harris, Kitten Hayward, Jose Napoles, Ernie Lopez, Carlos Monzon, Armando Muniz, Jean-Claude Bouttier, Tony Mundine, Tony Licata, Bennie Briscoe, Vito Antuofermo and Alan Minter

Its not just that he FOUGHT these guys, he BEAT the lion's share of them... with the exception of that Carter fight, he was competetive (often bitterly so) in all of the ones he lost... and he fought several of these guys (Moyer, Fernandez, Tiger, Briscoe, Rodriguez, Paret, Benvenuti, Haywayrd, Archer, etc.) MROE than once and in some cases 3 or 4 times

What a great fighter, and versatile... he wasnt great at anything, but he was GOOD at everything and had the intangibles to make up the difference... even the remaining names on his resume outside of those I mentioned consisted of a lot of solid journeymen and trial horses... who else post 1950 has a resume with so few soft touches on it and that many hard fights? Nobody

 

Not treating the vagina.

 

:laughing:

 

how about fritz zivic?

 

thats pre 1950, but certainly he'd be up there

though he had a lot more losses against the best than wins

Emile had a lot more wins against his otughest foes

 

Very sound post. Personally, I would put his competition above Ali's, & anyone else's during the prescribed timeframe.

Looking at Griffith's resume begs the question --- who has the greatest CV of all-time, & where would Griffith rank in such a discussion?

 

it has been awhile since there's been an old timer circle jerk thread.

Duran by a mile.

 

:laugh11::laugh11:

That

 

:laugh11::laugh11:

That said, he fisted the shit out of Benny Paret.

 

Griffith's resume is rather easily better than Duran's, as remarkable as that is in & of itself. There's no way you can look at who Griffith fought & argue Duran comes up tops for competition faced.

 

This is a ridiculous statement. Just put the ring magazines down, take bert sugar off your ipod, and stop whackin to the richard simmons tapes, and nobody will get hurt.

 

What you fail to understand, Ramonza, is that if guys like Griffith were actually legitimate parts of discussions like this Jaws would either have to admit ignorance or bother to go learn about them. Neither of which is palatable. So they're rubbish and anyone who says differently is part of an old timer circle jerk.

You see why you're wrong now?

 

Someone is going to get embarrassed, though.

 

look goth kid, Emile griffith is an ATG fighter with a loaded resume. Nobody would dispute that. But when you have to bring in guys like Gaspar Ortega and Joe Harris to talk about how great his resume is, you're being a complete fuckwad.

"Boy that Roy had a great resume, being up on David Telesco, Glenn Kelley, Percy harris, Art Serwano,..."

 

Fucka eeewwww, Jaws. I'm away to listen to Christian Death and cut myself....or something.

 

:clapagain::clapagain::clapagain:

Fair play Jaws, that was amusing.

Bert Sugar is a cunt, I hope he get's cancer of the mouth.

 

You are actually saying that Telesco, Kelly, Harris are in the same class of fighter as Ortega or Gypsy Joe Harris??

Fucking nonsense, even you can't be that ignorant

Let's compare Duran and Griffith's resume

Griff's again, quoted form my earlier post:
Gaspar Ortega, Denny Moyer, Florentino Fernandez, Willie Toweel, Jorge Fernandez, Benny Paret, Isaac Logart, Ralph Dupas, Don Fullmer, Luis Rodriguez, Holly Mims, Rubin Carter (a total fluke KO loss that I'd give Carter about a 1% chance of ever duplicating) , Dick Tiger, Joey Archer, Nino Benvenuti, Joe Harris, Kitten Hayward, Jose Napoles, Ernie Lopez, Carlos Monzon, Armando Muniz, Jean-Claude Bouttier, Tony Mundine, Tony Licata, Bennie Briscoe, Vito Antuofermo and Alan Minter

here's Duran:
Ernesto Marcel, Hiroshi Kobayashi, Ken buchanan, Esteban DeJesus, Hector Thompson, Guts Suzuki, Ray Lampkin, Edwin Viruet, Saoul Mamby, Vilomar Fernandez, Adolfo Viruet, Carlos Palomino, Ray Leonard, Luigi Manchillo, Wilfred benitez, Pipino Cuevas, Davey Moore, Marvin Hagler, Hearns, Barkley... I would continue but its kind of unfair to the guy since he was totally finished by 1990, but if you want to count a bunch of losses, you can add Camacho, Pazienza, etc. but he wasn't competetive by then, so they arent enhancements

It's very close, at least, but I'd say Griffith's overall volume of fighting many of these guys over and over trumps Duran's even though Roberto would have to be considered the greater fighter...

but this is about level of competetition, and Griffith's was incredibly fierce

 

Don't object to the answer. Object to how the question was phrased.

 

what is your ring experience, brother??

clearly you are a typist who reads books

everybody knows that reading is for queers

the only way to be able to formulate a proper boxing opinion is to lose fights when you are a teenager or if you know some guys that kinda sorta box, keyboard warrior

now, you need to quit getting personal

 

::

 

Brilliant...

I once shared an elevator with Don King and Julian Jackson... So yeah, I think that speaks for itself.