- Dana White recently discussed Alistair Overeem, here are the highlights… On Overeem: "Listen, I like Alistair Overeem. I see him all the time. Cool guy. But there's no urgency on my part to get him into the UFC." On His Top 10 Status: "I actually find it hilarious that he's ranked in the top 10 by some of the websites. I find it hilarious. What has he done in MMA to be ranked in the top 10? I'd like somebody here to answer that question. We've got a lot of media guys here; what has Alistair Overeem done to be ranked in the top 10 of mixed martial arts' heavyweight division? How do you figure because he's such a good K-1 fighter (that) he can parlay that into being a mixed-martial-arts fighter?" an exasperated White asked. "That's what makes the mixed-martial-arts media [expletive] stupid – that they would even rank this guy in the top 10 because he's fighting in K-1. That makes absolutely no [expletive] sense, and I would love to hear somebody make sense of this guy being ranked in the top 10. Has he fought anybody worth mentioning? Uh, yeah that would help. Guys that fight the top guys in the top 10, three times a year in mixed martial arts – those are the guys that are ranked in the top 10. How bout the fact that he's fighting in K-1, where you just kick and punch? There's no wrestling, there's no this, and there's no that. How does any credible [expletive] MMA guy put him in the top 10 in the heavyweight division? It's hilarious." On Why He Gets Ranked So High: "You know what this is? Another Fedor thing," he said. "UFC doesn't have him, so we're going to rank him in the top 10 even though the guy is only fighting in [expletive] K-1. [Expletive] great guy. I like Overeem. I have nothing but respect for him. But it's an absolute [expletive] joke that anybody would rank him in the top 10. And anybody that wants to debate with me, and tell me why Alistair should be ranked, [expletive] fire away. I'm ready. I want to hear it. Can't wait. If on your rankings you have him in the top 10, you should be [expletive] embarrassed."
Dana is crazy. I would love to see his top 10. If he said top 5 then I would cut him some slack but who are the 9 guys that would be ahead of Overeem ? I would love to see them.
I'm going to break it down for you all. I invite a counter argument from anyone on here. Here is who Overeem has beaten in his last bunch of fights. Buentello, this was in 2007. Never was this guy ranked in anyones top 10. Tae Hyun Lee..... Who? Mark Hunt, sure Hunt used to be a fairly good fighter, with an iron chin. He hasn't been that guy for quite some time. Cro Cop, NC, most thought Overeem was going to win and it's most likely what would have happened. What does a win over Mirko mean these days? No much. Gary Goodridge. Really? Tony Sylvester. Again....Who? James Thompson, a stiff breeze could KO this guy and so can Kimbo. Fujita? When was the last time he was relevant? His claim to fame is rocking Fedor. And lastly, Brett Rogers, which is his best win in 5 years. I give him a good amount of credit for this, people can say what they want about Rogers but he's dangerous for anyone. This just isn't looking like top 10 material to me. Potential aside of course, I think Overeem is a very good fighter but is vastly overrated because of his K-1 success.
His "Top-10" status is only due to the fact that he holds a HW strap in a MMA org that is broadcast on national television. To earn that strap (which I believe was vacant, correct me if I'm mistaken), he had to beat Buentello. Not exactly a title contender, that Paul.... Overeem's 1st love is and has always been kickboxing - it's what the Dutch are famous for. MMA is treated like a hobby on the side and if Overeem really cared much about it, he would train and fight accordingly. To call him top level MMA HW is specualtion based on potential but no real resume exists to back this up. Cant stand the way Prez Dana talks, "fuck fuck fuck fuck fuckin...." But I understand his logic. However, I would LOVE to see his top 10 HW list. No way, Big Country can be ranked ahead of Overeem on anything.
whether it was attributed by roids or not, overeem doesn't seem like the same guy at middleweight/light heavy getting overwhelmed by guys like shogun and lidell. plus, i doubt that small version of overeem would be knocking out big ass heavies in k-1. considering his standup game is very serious at this point, i wonder if straight strikers like dos santos would have success against him. i know he hardly competes in mma anymore, but just the way he manhandled brett rogers can't go unnoticed. at this point in his career, overeem would be more susceptible against submission guys like wendrum (as shown in their first fight) than big strikers.
Overeem is definately top 10, but it is not based on his recent ledger, but on his ability and who most think he will beat.
personally, i'd love to see overeem vs. dos santos. who would have the advantage in stand-up game? i'm sure overeem feels much more comfortable these days going into the cage due to his increased size and ability to knock guys out. overeem vs. nelson would be an appropriate match to start out w/ IF the guy ever decides to switch over.
That's the problem, rankings are not based on potential they are based on actual fights. You can't rank a guy in the top 10 because you think he's that good, he has to PROVE he's that good and he simply has not done that.
true, but who are these top 10 heavyweights anyhow? you can breakdown dos santos, carwin, and even velasquez's record and see that only their last three wins have been significant. it doesn't take much for a known guy w/ a glossy record to become a contender. have overeem fight roy nelson in his first fight and win. he'll be a top 5 contender shortly after.
I have no time to do a list, but I guarantee you I can find at least 15 guys with better recent wins than Overeem. isn't that what ranking are based on? Actual performance? Don't get me wrong, I think Overeem is POTENTIALLY as good as anyone in the top ten, but to deserve a ranking you need to live up to that potential.
Sure he might be able to, but has he actually done it? Has he fought anyone who would be considered a top 10 HW?
my point is that ranking system in mma is way too volatile. brock might be top 5 now, but if he loses his tune up vs. some guy like brandon schaub, he'll be thrown out of the top 10. i know it probably won't ever come to fruition anytime soon, but IF overeem goes to ufc and KOs either mir, noguiera or nelson, he'll automatically be considered top 10 if not top 5.
I agree with this, given another win over a decent opponent will put him right there. The only win I give him credit for as of late is the Rogers fight. One more over a bigger name would do it for me. I think he's hanging around the top 15-20 as it stands.
On rankings in general: "First of all I believe that people who make rankings should first give clear criteria by which they rank the fighters, without a clear definition of your rankings all that is left is confusion and not a starting point for a clear debate. Some people just look at your last opponent, others more on how they think you would do, along with your past experience and the style in which you finish your opponents." On Dana white: "I think his comments should be viewed with a grain of salt as he is speaking from the point of view of the president of an MMA company that does not employ me. First he said I have not beaten a top10 opponent, which is not true as Brett Rogers was ranked when I beat him. He himself beat arlovski who was #3 at the time. You can say Brett didn't deserve to be ranked but you can say the same thing about Brock Lesnar, who is ranked #2 at the moment. Rankings on websites just tell you who the UFC is pushing for a title shot, nothing more nothing less" On Brock Lesnar: "Many people said Cain would finish Lesnar even though Lesnar was ranked higher. After what Cain did to him and his 5-2 record I don't think he should even be considered top5, but that is just my opinion. Beating and losing to Mir, almost losing to carwin and beating up herring and couture doesn't impress me. But I'm not going to spout nasty comments on the internet just because I think so, even though no sane person would rank Lesnar over Fedor (30-2) or Dos Santos (12-1). They even called Lesnar the 'baddest man on the planet'." On Strikeforce vs UFC: "Dana White would never let any of the UFC top5 face the top5 in Strikeforce, because I believe Strikeforce would win. If we have a HW tourney we should invite a UFC HW to participate like in PRIDE, and we'll see who has the better fighters." This is supposedly A.O. response to White comments
He beat Rogers, who was a top 10 at the time, and a couple of other fringe contenders ( Fujita, Buentello ) easilly. Sure, it's not awesome, but considering the state of the hw division, it's more than enough imo.
Buentello was 3 friggin years ago, then he didn't defend his "Belt" for two years after that. Fujita and Josh Thompson are straight up cans at this point. They wouldn't win a single fight in Strikeforce or the UFC HW division. I think he needs another good win to break the top 10. it's too bad he's a kick boxer and not an MMA fighter.
Looking at some rankings and the wasteland that is MMA heavyweights, I guess it wouldn't be a complete travesty if he were ranked in the very bottom of the top 10. It's not like he's made a real good case for it, but once you reach the bottom 3-4 it gets muddy.
Fujita a fringe contender..... That's a hilarious statement. Dana is hyping UFC and down playing anyone else. SHOCKING!!!!. Personally here are my HW rankings: 1. Cain Velasquez 2. Fedor Emelianenko 3. Fabricio Werdum 4. Junior dos Santos 5. Brock Lesnar 6. Josh Barnett 7. Shane Carwin 8. Alistair Overeem 9. Frank Mir 10. Roy Nelson It's subjective naturally, and I have a real problem with the recent competition of Barnett and Overeem. But to say they aren't 2 of the top 10 HW's in the world just doesn't feel right.
Overeem hasn't beaten anyone of note as I clearly stated. I would have ranked Mir higher if not for that absolutely disgusting display against Cro Cop. Period. But more importantly, if they were stepping in the ring tonight, I would make Overeem the favorite. You can reverse them if it makes you feel better. It's close and really not worth debating.
